Foreign Aircraft in Japanese Markings (1 Viewer)

[CPWN]

You guys forget He112 and He100. The two planes also been sent to Japan.

 

[ppopsie]

Apologies. He112:A7He1, Seversky 2PA-B3:A8V1 Both were given formal IJN designations. What were the others? DC-4E.

 

[Micdrow]

Top one is from the book of the squadron signal He 112 and the Dc-2 from the book Japanese aircraft by Rene J Francillon

 

[merlin]

Study of the Bf109 in Japan led to the design of the formidable Ki-61 Hein.

No, it didn't!

To William Green:
The only Japanese fighter powered by a liquid-cooked engine to see operational sevice, the Kawasaki KI.61 Hien (Swallow), was mistakenly believed to be a licence-built version of the Messeschmitt Bf 109, when it was first encountered by the Allies over New Guinea, in April 1943. In fact the design of the Hien was influenced in no way by the Messerschmitt fighter, the first prototype having flown six months before the arrival in Japan of an example of the Bf 109 from Germany.
It was though "exhaustively tested in mock-combat with the Bf 109E and captured examples of the P-40E, and were generally consideredd by the japanse to be superior to both German and American fighters in nearly all respects".

 

[Haztoys]

No, it didn't!

To William Green:
The only Japanese fighter powered by a liquid-cooked engine to see operational sevice, the Kawasaki KI.61 Hien (Swallow), was mistakenly believed to be a licence-built version of the Messeschmitt Bf 109, when it was first encountered by the Allies over New Guinea, in April 1943. In fact the design of the Hien was influenced in no way by the Messerschmitt fighter, the first prototype having flown six months before the arrival in Japan of an example of the Bf 109 from Germany.
It was though "exhaustively tested in mock-combat with the Bf 109E and captured examples of the P-40E, and were generally consideredd by the japanse to be superior to both German and American fighters in nearly all respects".

Man I'm going to have to have more nay sayers on that one ..It may have not been a "licence-built" ..But the Japanese were sure the rip off king of other countrys designs at that time...And the DB German motor ..Is sure its on animal..Theres a Japanese two seat (or maybe three) seat bomber that used the motor too..Forgot the name of the plane ..And theres the carcass of one out here in Arizona..It sure looks to be a DB German nock off..

 

[Micdrow]

Man I'm going to have to have more nay sayers on that one ..It may have not been a "licence-built" ..But the Japanese were sure the rip off king of other countrys designs at that time...And the DB German motor ..Is sure its on animal..Theres a Japanese two seat (or maybe three) seat bomber that used the motor too..Forgot the name of the plane ..And there's the carcass of one out here in Arizona..It sure looks to be a DB German nock off..

Other than the engine, the Ki-61 is a totally different animal. The engine basically is a DB-601A engine which Japan successfully negotiated with Germany . The Japanese version of this engine is designated the Ha-40. The aircraft shows the strong influence in engine engineering from that of Dr Vogt on his Japanese pupils. For those that don't know Dr Richard Vogt he was a German engineer who became the Chief Designer for Blohm and Voss.

Later the Japanese engineering team made a more powerful engine called the Ha-140 but due to lack of skilled workers the Ha-140 very rarely gave full power. Also the crank shaft was found to be weak and the engine also suffered from teething troubles. Matters for the aircraft got worse when on 19 January 1945 the US Air force destroyed the Akashi engine plant.

Also note the placement of the radiator for the cooling of the engine which is center line compared to the Messerschmitt which is in the wings of the aircraft. Also the landing gear which show that they retract toward the fuselage unlike the Messershmitt that retracts towards the wing tips. Then there is the canopy. Bf-109 opens to the side while the Ki-61 slides backwards. There are more differences but those are the quick ones to identify.

In short if you start to break down the Ki-61 and the Bf-109 they are totally different aircraft except for the engine.

 

[Micdrow]

Top picture is a Bf-109E and the other is a Ki-61. Remember also that this is basically the same engine as the Db 601A. There for the enginers did not have a lot of choices on how the front of the aircraft would look. One of the reasons why it resembles so much like a Bf-109

 

[merlin]

Other than the engine, the Ki-61 is a totally different animal. The engine basically is a DB-601A engine which Japan successfully negotiated with Germany . The Japanese version of this engine is designated the Ha-40. The aircraft shows the strong influence in engine engineering from that of Dr Vogt on his Japanese pupils. For those that don't know Dr Richard Vogt he was a German engineer who became the Chief Designer for Blohm and Voss.

Later the Japanese engineering team made a more powerful engine called the Ha-140 but due to lack of skilled workers the Ha-140 very rarely gave full power. Also the crank shaft was found to be weak and the engine also suffered from teething troubles. Matters for the aircraft got worse when on 19 January 1945 the US Air force destroyed the Akashi engine plant.

Also note the placement of the radiator for the cooling of the engine which is center line compared to the Messerschmitt which is in the wings of the aircraft. Also the landing gear which show that they retract toward the fuselage unlike the Messershmitt that retracts towards the wing tips. Then there is the canopy. Bf-109 opens to the side while the Ki-61 slides backwards. There are more differences but those are the quick ones to identify.

In short if you start to break down the Ki-61 and the Bf-109 they are totally different aircraft except for the engine.

Yes, I agree with your post. Excellent extra info. And, of course with the demise of the Akashi engine plant, there were a lot of Ki-61's about with no hope of a liquid cooled engine. Hence, with such a need - using a big (4' dia radial) the excellent Ki-100 was borne.

 

[Marshall_Stack]

Top one is from the book of the squadron signal He 112 and the Dc-2 from the book Japanese aircraft by Rene J Francillon

Is it me or does it appear that the props on the Japanese DC-3 appear bent?

 

[Micdrow]

Is it me or does it appear that the props on the Japanese DC-3 appear bent?

Yeah the picture in the book does show the props bent but I have no clue what happened. Kinda weird though as they are bent forward and not backwards.

 

[HoHun]

Hi Micdrow,

>Kinda weird though as they are bent forward and not backwards.

From what I've read, this can happen if you strike a water surface with the propeller tips.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[Micdrow]

While diggin around in one of my old cds of pictures that I have collected on the web through time I found these and thought you all would be interested. Dont ask for sources because I have no idea where I got these. LOL

 

[Micdrow]

Some more, bottom picture is of Seversky 2PA of which 20 where supplied to Japan before the war

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Here is a list of foreign aircraft that Japan tested:

Dewoitine D.510J
Nieuport 29C-1
Potez 542
Potez 25 TOE
Arado Ar 196
Bücker Bü 131B Jungmann
Dornier Do 15 Wal
Heinkel He 70 Blitz
Heinkel He 118
Heinkel He 50A
Heinkel He 112B V12 / B-1
Heinkel He 100D
Heinkel He 116A
Focke-Wulf Fw 190A-3/-5
Junkers F.6
Junkers F.13
Junkers Ju 86Z-2
Junkers Ju 87A-1
Junkers Ju 160
Messerschmitt Bf 108
Messerschmitt Bf 109E-3 / E-7
Messerschmitt Me 210A-2
Fiat BR.20 Cicogna
Lavochkin LaGG-3
Polikarpov I-15
Polikarpov I-16 Type 24
Tupolev SB-2
Bristol Blenheim IV
Bristol Bulldog (Type J.S.S.F.)
Hawker Hurricane IIC
Hawker Nimrod II
Brewster Buffalo 339 (F2A-3)
Martin B-10B Bomber 128
Boeing F4B-4 (P-12F)
Boeing B-17C/E Flying Fortress
Curtiss P-40E Kittyhawk
Curtiss-Wright CW-21B Demon
Curtiss-Wright SNC-1 Falcon
Curtiss-Wright BT-32 Condor II
Chance Vought V-143
Douglas DF
Douglas DC-2
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-4E
Douglas DC-5
Douglas DB-19
Douglas Boston III (A-20 Havoc)
Lockheed 10
Lockheed 14
Fairchild 22 (C-7A)
Fairchild A942-B
Fokker Super Universal USA
Grumman F6F-5 Hellcat
North American NA-16
North American P-51C
Northrop Gamma
Ryan STM-S2
Salmson 2A2
Seversky 2PA Convoy Fighter
Vougth V-65C Corsair
Vought F4U-1 Corsair

 

[Micdrow]

Interesting list, I think Ive seen the f4u corsair some where but the Ju-86, Hellcat and mustang are new to me.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I would love to see pics of all of them, if they are out there.

 

[Micdrow]

I will have to do some more digging, I sure I have a few more in the list above.

 

[Micdrow]

1st one is japanese troops capturing a Brewster buffalo
2nd one is a Chance Vought 143
3rd one Heinkel HD 25
4th one is a Heinkel 28

 

[Micdrow]

Couple of more

 

[FLYBOYJ]

GREAT STUFF GUYS!