Best WWII fighter pilot....?

[Lucky13]

I know that we've been going over this over and over and over again...who was the best fighter pilot of WWII, but to be honest have we really? Let's be honest, the russians didn't have much to write home about in the Great Patriotic War and the same for the Japanese at the end of WWII.... The Luftwaffe was way ahead of the VVS in the beginning, the same for IJN and IJAAF against the USN, USMC and USAAF.....before they catched up and passed with the Hellcat and Corsair...
But WHO was really the better pilot of the war if you look at skills, imagination, ability to switch from one fighter type to another, brains to come up with new tactics etc. etc..who was the COMPLETE fighter pilot?
Nationality won't do anything good here, who would come out on top in a mock fight in Bf 109G-6....Gunther Rall or Hans-Joachim Marseille, P-47D....Richard I. Bong or Gregory "Pappy" Boyington....and so on...could even put Rall and Marseille in a P-51D, just for the sake of the discussion? Put two pilots in a similar fighter, launch them at the same time from two different airfields....in the end, who'd be the last man standing?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I personally have to go with Heinz Bär.

Short bio:

Missions flown: 1000

Theatres flown in: West, East and Med

Kills: 221 (124 in the West and 16 with the Me 262)

Shot Down: 18

Acft Flown:
Junkers Ju 52/3m
Messerschmitt Bf 109E
Messerschmitt Bf 109F
Focke Wulf 190 A-7
Messerschmitt Me 262

Units Assigned To:
JG 51
JG 77
JGr. Süd
JG 1
JG 3
EJG 2
JV 44

Units Commanded:
12./JG 51
I.JG 77
JGr. Süd
II./JG 1
JG 3
III./EJG 2
JV 44

Awards:
Silver Would Badge
German Cross in Gold (27 May 1942)
Front Flying Clasp of the Luftwaffe in Gold with Pennant "1000"
Honor Goblet of the Luftwaffe
Africa Cuff Title
Iron Cross 2nd Class
Iron Cross 1st Class (July 1940)
Knights Cross (2. July 1941)
Oakleaves (14. August 1941)
Swords (16. February 1942)

 

[Lucky13]

Didn't he die in a private plane crash after the war Adler.....70's or so?

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

I guess Erich Hartmann for his all time high of kills. There were a lot of German pilots probably as good or better than him but didn't have time to reach his score or met with bad luck, such as Hans-Joachim Marseille. Some just didn't have the luck to meet enemy aircraft on missions. Dick Bong was one of those, he often met enemy aircraft at a unusual rate and in odd places.

Galland was a good warrior in every way, he didn't care for Hitler much and his policies.

Pappy Boyington was certainly a good fighter pilot. He also let his pilots under him have a lot of freedom in dogfighting, and didn't restrict their movements as some squadron commanders did. It was also risky at the same time, but a lot of his men became aces so it certainly worked.


The British always downplayed their high scoring pilots, so often you hear less about their individual albilities than other countries pilots, who would often make national heroes out of them. But some pilots, like Douglas Bader by sheer charisma and skill, did make headlines and change tactics.

 

[ToughOmbre]

I've always thought that Hans-Joachim Marseille was one of the best, if not the best. 158 kills in 382 missions. Had it not been for a bailout accident that killed him in 1942, his victory total could have possibly surpassed Hartmann's 352. The "Star of Africa" was a fitting nickname.

TO

 

[plan_D]

The Luftwaffe seem to posess the greatest pilots of the war when it comes to individual skill; the numbers speak for themselves. The Luftwaffe pilots did have a lot of oppurtunity to hone their skill before meeting an air force on par with their own, so it's hardly surprising that their kill numbers are so high.

The question that should be asked here is, what makes a good pilot? Is a pilot target practice? Is a good pilot a pilot than can stay alive? Is a great pilot a man who can shoot down enemy aircraft? Is an amazing pilot a man who can lead his whole squadron into ace status?

You have to really wonder - who's more important?

 

[Catch22]

I've always thought that Hans-Joachim Marseille was one of the best, if not the best. 158 kills in 382 missions. Had it not been for a bailout accident that killed him in 1942, his victory total could have possibly surpassed Hartmann's 352. The "Star of Africa" was a fitting nickname.

TO

I completely agree. I read somewhere that his ground crew counted how many bullets he used per plane after a mission and it was something like 60. Ironically he delayed switching from the Friedrich to the Gustav because the G's were having teething problems with their engines, and once he was forced to switch, that's what ended up killing him.

 

[pbfoot]

The german pilots records speak for themselves but I'd like to take PlanD's statement and add an Allied pilot for consideration
Lloyd Chadburn with 20 kills 2 DSO's 2 E boats 1 destroyer badly damaged his wing in escorting 60 9th AF missions in 1943 lost only lost only 1 B26 to fighters while shooting down 66 enemy aircraft without loss to the wing. The 9th AF called him the Angel. He was killed in a mid air with another Spit in june 44

 

[FLYBOYJ]

How about "Butcher' Bob Hansen?

"A master of individual air combat, he downed 20 enemy planes in six consecutive flying days."

Robert M. Hanson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Didn't he die in a private plane crash after the war Adler.....70's or so?

Yes he did die in a private plane crash at the age of 44 on 28 April 1957.

He would actually get himself in trouble a lot because he did not believe in authority. He just went out and flew his missions which was his job. He was actually recommended the Diamonds for his Knights Cross on 3 seperate occasions and was turned down by Göring himself because he was not a "good" little Nazi.

Erich Hartmann has the most kills and he is my favorite pilot but he was not the most technicaly best pilot. There were plenty of pilots that were better than him on all sides.

Now having said that he does deserve the title as "Greatest" because his kill list is the highest and will never be approaced.

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Heinz Bar actually reminds me a bit of the Americans pilots.


With today's technology, wouldn't it be possible for a really good pilot flying a "stealth" plane to score a really high numbers of kills? He would sneak up on his opponents from miles away, and shoot them all before they could even locate them. I don't think there has been a fighter like that yet. It wouldn't be the same as the old fighter pilots, who really went head to head with their opponents, but it could be chillingly effective.

 

[Lucky13]

With all the stealth and other weapons....we'll soon be back to square one, when it all will be up to the pilots and GUNS....

 

[claidemore]

I think many of the qualities needed for a good fighter pilot would be inherited. In that case I would look pretty closesly at Arthur Bishop. Between his father (William) and himself, they accounted for 73 German planes. Best father/son combo AFAIK.

 

[Konigstiger205]

Its hard to choose the greatest pilot of WW2 but my guess is that it would be a Luftwaffe pilot, although the Finns had great pilots and so did my country.In the end we can only guess and imagine who would have been the greatest of them all.

 

[Lucky13]

Victories, Date and Time Notes Hans-Joachim Marseille
– 1940 –
I. (Jagd)/LG 2
1-24 August 1940
Hurricane/Spitfire over Kent.
2-2 September 1940
Spitfire over Detling, Kent.
Marseille's aircraft was severely hit so that he had to crash land near Calais-Marck. Bf 109 E-7 W.Nr. 3579 was 50% damaged.

3-11 September 1940 17.05
Spitfire over southern England.
Marseille flew as wingman to Hauptfeldwebel Helmut Goedert. Marseille's aircraft was severely damaged by a Hurricane pilot forcing him to crash-land at the French coast near Wissant. Bf 109 E-7 W.Nr. 5597 was 75% damaged.

4-15 September 1940 Hurricane over the River Thames, England.
5-18 September 1940 Spitfire over southern England.
6-27 September 1940 Hurricane over London.
7-28 September 1940 Spitfire over southern England.

– 1941 –
I./JG 27
8-23 April 1941 12.50
Hurricane over Tobruk.
Marseille's Bf 109 E-7 (W.Nr. 5160) sustained 100% damage after combat and belly landing at Tobruk.
9-28 April 1941 09.25
Bristol Blenheim Mk IV over the sea north of Tobruk.
The Blenheim was T2429, from No. 45 Squadron RAF, piloted by Pilot Officer B. C. de G. Allan. The crew and passengers were killed in the crash.
10 – 11 1 May 1941 09.15 and 09.25
Two Hurricanes south of Tobruk.
His adversaries were No. 274 Squadron RAF and No. 6 Squadron RAF. I./JG 27 claimed four victories. Pilot Officer Stanley Godden, an ace with seven victories, was killed in action.
12 – 13 17 June 1941 17.15 and 18.45
Two Hurricanes, the first northeast of Tobruk and the second east of Sidi Omar.
Germans pilots claimed 13 Hurricanes in numerous engagements, the German authorities confirmed 11 claims, of which seven were credited to I./JG 27. The Allies lost at least 10 aircraft. Around noon, seven Hurricanes of No. 1 Squadron SAAF engaged Bf 109 and lost four aircraft, one of which was lost to ground fire. In the afternoon No. 73 Squadron RAF lost one aircraft to flak, No. 229 Squadron RAF lost two Hurricanes in aerial combat with Bf 109s and No. 274 Squadron RAF also lost two aircraft to German fighters. No. 33 Squadron RAF lost one Hurricane to an Italian Fiat G.50 and a German Ju 87. The Italians claimed three aerial victories. Marseille's adversaries therefore most likely belonged to 229 Sqn and/or 274 Sqn RAF.

14 28 August 1941 18.00
Hurricane northwest of Sidi Barrani over the sea.
Marseille's adversaries were 12 Hurricanes of No. 1 Squadron SAAF. Lieutenant V.F. Williams fighter crashed into the sea. Although injured he was rescued.
15–16 17 June 1941 17.12
17.18 Two Hurricanes southeast of Bardia.
17 13 September 1941 17.25 Hurricane south of Bardia.
18 14 September 1941 17.46 Hurricane southeast of Sofafi.
Marseille's opponents were Hurricanes from No. 33 Squadron RAF on an escort mission for Martin Marylands from No. 24 Squadron SAAF. Three Hurricanes were lost in combat with 12 Bf 109s and six Fiat G.50s. The Italians and Germans combined claims were three Hurricanes in this encounter.
19 24 September 1941 13.30 Four Hurricanes and a Martin Maryland of No. 203 Squadron RAF.
Marseille's opponents were nine Hurricanes of No. 1 Squadron SAAF and nine aircraft of an unidentified unit. The South Africans lost a total of three Hurricanes. Captain C. A. van Vliet and 2nd Lieutenant J. MacRobert returned unhurt while Lieutenant B.E. Dold remains missing. I./JG 27 claimed six aerial victories in this engagement. It is possible that the unidentified aircraft were Mk IIB Tomahawks of No. 112 Squadron RAF. This unit was bounced by a Bf 109, while returning from a shipping escort mission. Pilot Officer D. F. "Jerry" Westenra, a New Zealander and a future ace, baled out.
20 – 23 16.45
16.47
16.51
17.00
24 – 25 12 October 1941 08.12
08.15 Two P-40s from No. 112 Squadron RAF near Bir Sheferzan.
JG 27 aircraft encountered 24 Mk IIB Tomahawks of No. 2 Squadron SAAF and No. 3 Squadron RAAF. The Australians lost three aircraft, while the South Africans reported one loss plus one severely damaged. I./JG 27 claimed four aerial victories in this engagement.
26 5 December 1941 15.25 Hurricane.
The adversaries were 20 Hurricanes of No. 274 Squadron RAF and No. 1 Squadron SAAF. Both squadrons reported the loss of one aircraft. I./JG 27 reported two aerial victories in this engagement.
27 - 28 6 December 1941 12.10
12.25 Two Hurricanes south of El Adem.
29 7 December 1941 09.30 Hurricane west of Sidi Omar.
JG 27 fought Hurricanes from No. 274 Squadron RAF, which lost three fighters in combat with 15 Ju 87s, six Bf 109s, 12 MC 202s and MC 200s. The Italians and Germans claimed three aerial victories in this engagement.
30 8 December 1941 08.15 P-40 southeast of El Adem.
Marseille's opponents were misidentified Hurricanes of No. 274 Squadron RAF. This unit lost three fighers in aerial combat with 30 Bf 109s, MC 200s and MC 202s.
31 10 December 1941 08.50 "P-40" southeast of El Adem.
The victory was over a Tomahawk IIB from No. 2 Squadron SAAF. The pilot, Lieutenant B. G. S. Enslin, bailed out uninjured.
32 11 December 1941 09.30 P-40 southeast of Tmimi.
A Tomahawk IIB, AK457, of No. 250 Squadron RAF. The pilot, Flight Sergeant M.A. Canty, remains missing in action.
33 – 34 13 December 1941 16.00
16.10 Two P-40s northeast of Martuba and north east of Tmimi.
One of his victories was a Tomahawk IIB, AM384 of No. 3 Squadron RAAF, piloted by Flying Officer Tommy Trimble, who was wounded and had to crash-land his aircraft.
35 – 36 17 December 1941 11.10
11.28 Two P-40s west-northwest of Martuba and southeast of Derna.
Marseille's opponents were eight misidentified Hurricanes of No. 1 Squadron SAAF on an escort missions for eight Bristol Blenheim from No. 14 Squadron RAF and No. 84 Squadron RAF. The South Africans suffered heavy losses to 12 Bf 109s. Three Hurricanes were reported missing; a fourth was shot down, a fifth crash-landed and a sixth sustained heavy damage. I./JG 27 claimed five aerial victories in this engagement.
– 1942 –
37 – 38 8 February 1942 08.22
08.25 Four P-40s east-northeast of Martuba, north of Martuba, northwest of Bomba Bay and over the sea northeast of Bomba Bay.
The first action took place directly over the airfield at Martuba. The first victory was a Flight Sergeant Hargreaves, who belly landed his fighter and was taken prisoner.
It seems that Marseille's third victory was mistakenly identified as a P-40. The victim was most likely a Hurricane IIB, Z5312, of No. 73 Squadron RAF, piloted by Flight Sergeant Alwyn Sands (RAAF), who also crash-landed. Marseille's 40th claim was probably Sgt A. T. Tonkin of No. 112 Squadron, who was killed.
39 – 40 14.20
14.30
41 – 44 12 February 1942 13.30
13.32
13.33
13.36 Three P-40s and a Hurricane northwest of Tobruk.
The Hurricanes came from No. 274 Squadron RAF. This unit lost in aerial combat with four Bf 109 fighters in the vicinity of Tobruk: Sergeant R. W. Henderson crashed south of Tobruk and Sergeant Parbury bailed out with his parachute; both of them were uninjured. Pilot Officer S. E. van der Kuhle crashed his Hurricane IIA DG616 into the sea. Flight Lieutenant Smith (Hurricane IIB BD821) did not return from this mission and remains missing in action.
45 – 46 13 February 1942 09.20
09.25 Two Hurricanes southeast of Tobruk.
Marseille's adversaries were seven Hurricanes from No. 1 Squadron SAAF and No. 274 Squadron RAF. These units lost in aerial combat with three Bf 109 fighters in the vicinity of Tobruk. I./JG 27 claimed three aerial victories in this engagement. Marseille's first victory was Lieutenant Le Roux; the South African crashed his burning Hurricane but escaped the wreck, although he was injured.
47 – 48 15 February 1942 13.00
13.03 Two P-40s southwest of Gambut
Kittyhawk Is from No. 3 Squadron RAAF, near Gambut airfield. The Kittyhawks were bounced by two Bf 109s during takeoff. Marseille's first victory was Kittyhawk I AK594; the pilot, Tommy Briggs, bailed out at an altitude of 100 m and was injured. The second victory was Kittyhawk I AK605; Flight Sergeant Frank Reid was killed in action.

 

[Lucky13]

49 – 50 21 February 1942 12.10
12.18 Two P-40s west of Fort Acroma, probably from No. 112 squadron, who lost three aircraft.
Marseille's opponents were 11 Kittyhawks I from No. 112 Squadron RAF, which lost three aircraft in aerial combat with six Bf 109s. I./JG 27 reported three aerial victories in this engagement.
51 – 52 27 February 1942 12.00
12.12 Two P-40s east-northeast of Fort Acroma. Probably Mk I Kittyhawks belonging to No. 3 Squadron RAAF: Sergeant Roger Jennings, in AK665 was killed; Dick Hart in AK689 bailed out and returned to his unit.
53 – 54 25 April 1942 10.06
10.09 Two P-40s north of the Italian airfield at Ain el Gazala and over the sea north of Ain el Gazala.
Opponents were Kittyhawks I from No. 260 Squadron RAF and Tomahawks IIB from No. 2 Squadron SAAF and No. 4 Squadron SAAF. These units had the following losses in this engagement: Three Tomahawks and one Kittyhawk missing (one pilot later returned wounded), two Kittyhawks and two Tomahawks crash landed after aerial combat, and one heavily damaged and one lightly damaged Kittyhawk. On the German side I.JG 27 reported five P-40s, II./JG 27 three P-40s shot down. The combat reports indicate that Marseille's opponents were Kittyhawks from No. 260 Squadron RAF.
55 – 56 10 May 1942 09.13
09.15 Two Mk I Hurricanes, southeast of Martuba airfield.
The Hurricanes belonged to No. 40 Squadron SAAF and were on a patrol mission. Both pilots, Captain Cobbledick and Lieutenant Flesker, are missing in action. The first victory was a Hurricane I, serial number Z4377.
57 – 58 13 May 1942 10.10
10.15 Two P-40s: southeast of Ain el Gazala and over Gazala Bay.
On this occasion, 12 Mk I Kittyhawks from No. 3 Squadron RAAF were bounced by two Bf 109s coming from the sun. Flying Officer Harrold Graham Pace, flying Kittyhawk I AL172, was killed by a bullet in the head. Sergeant Colin McDiarmid bailed out, injured from his Kittyhawk I AK855. Flying Officer Geoff Chinchen reported that he damaged a Messerchmitt and Marseille's aircraft was hit in the oil tank and propeller on this occasion.
59 – 60 16 May 1942 18.05
18.15 Two P-40s, east of Ain el Gazala and east of Fort Acroma.
Following the first action, Flight Sergeant Teade of No. 3 Squadron RAAF crash-landed his burning Mk I Kittyhawk, AL120, west of El Adem and returned to his unit uninjured. The second combat involved four Mk I Kittyhawks of No. 450 Squadron RAAF. Pilot Officer Parker bailed out uninjured. His pilotless fighter crashed into the Kittyhawk of Sergeant A. J. Metherall. Both Kittyhawks, AK604 and AK697, were lost in the crash and Metherall was killed in action. Marseille only observed Parker bailing out and therefore claimed only two victories.
61 – 62 19 May 1942 07.20
07.30 Two P-40s south and southwest of Fort Acroma.
These were Kittyhawks from No. 450 Squadron RAAF. The Kittyhawk I AK842, piloted by Flight Sergeant Ivan Young, was hit in the engine. Young crash-landed without injury to himself; his fighter was destroyed by a resultant fire. Young managed to make it back to Allied lines.
63 – 64 23 May 1942 11.05
11.06 Two Douglas Boston southeast of Tobruk harbour.
These were really Mk I Martin Baltimores, of No. 223 Squadron RAF. Four Baltimores attacked the airport at Derna, without a fighter escort and three (AG703, AG708 and AG717) were shot down. The fourth bomber crash-landed on its return flight. I./JG 27 claimed four aerial victories that day.
65 30 May 1942 06.05 P-40 northwest of El Adem.
Marseille's adversaries were 20 Mk I Kittyhawks of No. 250 Squadron RAF and No. 450 Squadron RAAF, who were attacked by four Bf 109s between Tobruk and El Adem. The Kittyhawk I AK705 of No. 250 Squadron RAF started burning and crashed. Sergeant Graham Buckland (RAAF) bailed out, but his parachute failed to open.
66 – 68 31 May 1942 07.26
07.28
07.34 Three P-40s west of Bir-el Harmat and south-west of Fort Acroma, probably belonging to No. 5 Squadron SAAF; one of the pilots was Maj. Andrew Duncan (5.5 claims), who was killed.
69 1 June 1942 19.15 A P-40 southwest of Mteifel Chebir.
Potentially the involved Allied adversaries were Kittyhawks I from No. 112 Squadron RAF. This unit lost Pilot Officer Collet on this day (exact time and location is unknown). I./JG 27 claimed two aerial victories on this evening mission.
70 – 75 3 June 1942 12.22
12.25
12.27
12.28
12.29
12.33 Credited with six kills in 11 minutes against nine Mk IIB Tomahawks of No. 5 Squadron SAAF, which were engaged in aerial combat with Ju 87s and Bf 109s near Bir Hacheim. Among the South African losses were four shot down Tomahawks (Tomahawk IIB AK384, AK421, AM401 and AN262) and two heavily damaged Tomahawks. Robin Pare was killed in this action; Captain Morrison, Lieutenant Muir and 2nd Lieutenant Douglas Golding were wounded. 2nd Lieutenant Martin crash landed in the fortress of Bir Hacheim and returned. Captain Adrian Jacobus Botha made an emergency landing at Gambut.
Three of these adversaries were the aces Douglas Golding, Robin Pare and Adrian Jacobus Botha.
76 – 77 7 June 1942 16.10
16.13 Two P-40s southwest and northeast of El Adem.
Marseille's adversaries were two Kittyhawk Mk Is, from No. 2 Squadron SAAF. The two fighters (AK611 and AK628) were lost in combat. Lieutenant Frewen bailed out from his burning aircraft and was uninjured. Lieutenant Leonard James Peter Berrangé was killed in the action.
78 – 81 10 June 1942 07.35
07.41
07.45
07.50 Four P-40s near Mteifel Chebir.
Among the opponents were 24 Hurricanes from No. 73 Squadron RAF and No. 213 Squadron RAF. These two units lost four Hurricanes in aerial combat with Bf 109s in the vicinity of Bir Hacheim. Since II./JG 27 reported aerial combat with 40 to 50 P-40s, further Allied units are likely to have been involved. It seems certain that Marseille's fourth victory was Hurricane IIB BM966 from No. 213 Squadron RAF. Pilot Officer A. J. Hancock crash landed near El Gubbi, after he was chased for more than 30km. On the German side I./JG 27 reported the destruction of seven P-40s while II./JG 27 claimed one Hurricane.
82 – 83 11 June 1942 16.25
16.35 One P-40 southeast of Fort Acroma and one Hurricane northwest of El Adem. Both were from No. 112 Squadron RAF, which lost two Kittyhawks.
84 – 87 13 June 1942 18.10
18.11
18.14
18.15 I./JG 27 claimed four P-40s and one "Hurricane" near El Adem/Gazala. Marseille claimed four and Leutnant Hans Remmer one.[69] These were P-40s from No. 450 Squadron RAAF; no Hurricanes were involved and only four aircraft were lost. Flight Sergeant Bill Halliday and Flt Sgt Roy Stone (RAF) were both killed in action.
88 – 91 15 June 1942 18.01
18.02
18.04
18.06 Marseille was credited with four kills in five minutes, including a P-40 near El Adem.
The Allied unit remains unidentified. I./JG 27 claimed six aerial victories in combat with 12 P-40s. An indication for the veracity of this claim is No. 204 Group RAF "Intelligence Report" which reported the loss of four aircraft that day.
92 – 95 16 June 1942 18.02
18.10
18.11
18.13 Four claims accepted; all fighters. No. 5 Squadron SAAF lost two: Lt. R. C. Denham was killed and the highest-scoring member of an SAAF squadron during the war, Major John "Jack" Frost, remains missing in action.

 

[Lucky13]

96 – 101 17 June 1942 12.02
12.04
12.05
12.08
12.09
12.12 Marseille was credited with six kills in seven minutes over Gambut (becoming the 11th pilot to score 100 kills).
His adversaries were Mk I Kittyhawks of No. 112 Squadron RAF and No. 250 Squadron RAF, as well as 12 Mk IIC Hurricanes of No. 73 Squadron RAF. The first two victories were misidentified Mk IIC Hurricanes (BN121 and BN157) of 73 Sqn. The pilots, Pilot Officer Stone and Flight Sergeant Goodwin, bailed out uninjured. The next two victories were Mk IIC Hurricanes (BN277 and BN456) also of 73 Sqn. Both pilots, Squadron Leader D. H. Ward and Pilot Officer Woolley, were killed in action. Marseille's century appears to have been Sergeant Roy Drew (RAAF) of 112 Sqn,[70] in Kittyhawk I, AK586. Drew was separated from his flight and did not return. The Spitfire was a Mk IV reconnaissance aircraft, BP916, flown by Pilot Officer Squires.
102 – 103 31 August 1942 10.03
10.04 Two Hurricanes, south-south-east of El Alamein in the morning and one Spitfire east of Alam Halfa at 6:25 PM.
It seems that one of Marseille's opponents was Pilot Officer L. E. Barnes. Barnes bailed out of his Hurricane IIC (BP451), but was severely wounded and died in a field hospital on 12 September 1942.
104 18.25
105 – 108 1 September 1942 08.26
08.28
08.35
08.39 Marseille was credited with 17 kills in three separate sorties over El Taqua, Alam Halfa and Deir el Raghat.
His adversaries on the early morning missions were Mk II Hurricanes (No. 1 Squadron SAAF and No. 238 Squadron RAF) and Mk V Spitfires (No. 92 Squadron RAF). One South African, Lieutenant Bailey, was injured in a crash landing, while Major P. R. C. Metelerkamp managed to fly his heavily damaged fighter back to his base. Flying Officer Matthews of 238 Sqn was posted as missing in action. Pilot Officer Bradley-Smith (92 Sqn) bailed out of his burning Spitfire VC BR474. Bradley-Smith was uninjured.
Among Marseille's adversaries during the midday combat were Mk IIB Tomahawks of No. 5 Squadron SAAF and Mk I Kittyhawks of No. 2 Squadron SAAF, to which was attached pilots of the 57th Fighter Group USAAF. [71] Lieutenant Stearns was wounded in the crash-landing of his P-40, Lieutenant Morrison (Kittyhawk I, ET575) remains missing in action, Lieutenant W. L. O. Moon bailed out of his Kittyhawk I, EV366 and was uninjured. Lieutenant G. B. Jack also remains missing in action.
Marseille's 117th official victory was over a Hurricane Mk IIB, BN273. The pilot, Sergeant A. Garrod, bailed out uninjured.
109 – 116 10.55
10.56
10.58
10.59
11.01
11.02
11.03
11.05
117 – 121 17.47
17.48
17.49
17.50
17.53
122 – 124 2 September 1942 09.16
09.18
09.24 Two P-40s and a Spitfire south of Imayid in the morning and two P-40s southeast of El Alamein in the afternoon.
Marseille's adversaries on the early morning mission were Mk I Kittyhawks of No. 2 Squadron SAAF, including pilots from the US 57th Fighter Group and Mk II Hurricanes of No. 33 Squadron RAF. One of Marseille's victories was Lieutenant Mac M. McMarrell (USAAF) who crash-landed his fighter and was wounded in this engagement. Lieutenant Reyneke crash-landed his Kittyhawk I. It seems certain that one of Marseille's kills was over a misidentified Hurricane II, piloted by Pilot Officer G. R. Dibbs, who remains missing in action.
Marseille's opponents in the afternoon combat were IIB Mk IIB Tomahawks of No. 5 Squadron SAAF. Marseille also shot down Lieutenant E. H. O. Carman (Tomahawk IIB AM390) and Lieutenant J. Lindber (Tomahawk Mk IIB, AM349) who remain missing in action.
125 – 126 15.18
15.21
127 – 129 3 September 1942 07.20
07.23
07.28 Marseille claimed two Spitfires and a P-40 near El Hammam, early in the morning, two P-40s near El Imayid in the afternoon and one more P-40 south-southeast of El Alamein in the late afternoon.
Marseille's adversaries in the early morning action were 24 Mk II Hurricanes, of No. 127 Squadron RAF and No. 274 Squadron RAF, 15 Mk I Kittyhawks of No. 260 Squadron RAF, No. 2 Squadron SAAF and No. 4 Squadron SAAF and eight Mk V Spitfires of No. 145 Squadron RAF. Pilots of the US 57th Fighter Group were attached to some of the above units. The pilot of the first aircraft destroyed by Marseille bailed out and appears to have been Sergeant M. Powers of 145 Sqn (Spitfire VB AB349), who was wounded in the engagement.
130 – 131 15.08
15.10
132 15.42
133 – 136 5 September 1942 10.48
10.49
10.51
11.00 Marseille was credited with four kills, despite a cannon malfunction, near Ruweisat and El Taqua.
Flight Lieutenant Canham and Pilot Officer Bicksler of No. 145 Squadron RAF both bailed out of their Spitfire V. It seems that one of them was Marseille's first victory. Mk I Kittyhawks of No. 112 Squadron RAF and No. 450 Squadron RAAF were also involved in this engagement.
137 – 140 6 September 1942 17.03
17.14
17.16
17.20 Three P-40s and a Spitfire south of El Alamein.
Among Marseille's opponents were eight Mk I Kittyhawks of No. 260 Squadron RAF, Mk IIB Tomahawks of No. 5 Squadron SAAF to which was attached pilots of the US 57th Fighter Group. 260 Sqn lost one Kittyhawk and a second fighter was damaged. 5 Sqn SAAF reported three losses and a fourth Tomahawk was damaged beyond repair. No. 7 Squadron SAAF lost five Hurricanes. It is unknown whether the Americans reported losses I./JG 27 claimed five aerial victories in action against 20 P-40s; II./JG 27 reported aerial combat with 12 DAF P-40s and 11 American fighters, claiming one victory. III./JG 53 claimed one P-40 in combat with12 P-40s and six Spitfires.
141 – 142 7 September 1942 17.43
17.45 Two P-40s southeast of El Alamein and southwest of El Hammam.
Marseille's opponents were Mk I Kittyhawks of No. 4 Squadron SAAF and Mk IIB Tomahawks from No. 5 Squadron SAAF. The South Africans lost two Tomahawks and one Kittyhawk. Two further Tomahawks and one Kittyhawk sustained battle damage. I./JG 27 claimed four aerial victories in this engagement.
143 – 144 11 September 1942 07.40
07.42 Two P-40s southeast of El Alamein and west-southwest of Imayid.
Marseille's opponents were likely Hurricanes II from No. 33 Squadron RAF and No. 213 Squadron RAF. No. 213 Sqn RAF reported the loss of Hurricane IIC BP381. Flight Sergeant S.R. Fry was shot down. I./JG 27 reported combat with 20 fighter bombers, an indication which points more to Hurricanes rather than Spitfires V from No. 145 Squadron RAF and No. 601 Squadron RAF, these were engaged with Ju 87s and Bf 109s at the same time.
145 – 151 15 September 1942 16.51
16.53
16.54
16.57
16.59
17.01
17.02 Marseille was credited with seven kills against P-40s from No. 239 Wing (No. 3 Squadron RAAF, No. 112 Squadron RAF and No. 450 Squadron RAAF) in 11 minutes. However, RAAF and RAF squadron records indicate that their total losses to enemy action that day were only five P-40s, while German claims were 19 or 20 destroyed.[72][73]
One of the P-40s shot down was piloted by Flight Sergeant Peter Ewing of 450 Sqn, who bailed out, was captured and spent a day as a guest of I./JG 27.
152 – 155 26 September 1942 09.10
09.13
09.15
09.16 Seven kills near El Daba and south of El Hammam, including three Spitfires.
Marseille's adversaries on an early morning mission were Mk II Hurricanes of No. 33 Squadron RAF and No. 213 Squadron RAF, plus eight Mk V Spitfires of No. 92 Squadron RAF. It seems certain that Marseille's first victory was over a misidentified Hurricane IIC, BN186, flown by Pilot Officer Luxton, who crash-landed his aircraft. Marseille's last victory was Pilot Officer Turvey, who bailed out of his Spitfire VC, BR494.
Marseille's adversaries in his last aerial combat, that afternoon, included 11 Spitfires from No. 145 Squadron RAF and No. 601 Squadron RAF.
156 – 158 15.56
15.59
16.10

 

[pbfoot]

Victories, Date and Time Notes Hans-Joachim Marseille
– 1940 –
I. (Jagd)/LG 2
1-24 August 1940
Hurricane/Spitfire over Kent.
2-2 September 1940
Spitfire over Detling, Kent.
Marseille's aircraft was severely hit so that he had to crash land near Calais-Marck. Bf 109 E-7 W.Nr. 3579 was 50% damaged.

.

here is W. Nr3579

 

[Lucky13]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2gHQGqKnGg


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7k1ilpbOUk


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QHnPk6TrjA


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RXU7C4paPU


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvOE_ROg1RI

 

[Catch22]

Marseille took a while to get rolling, but once he did, my god.