Gottfried Dulias: for real or an imposter

[Morai_Milo]

Gottfried Dulias does the rounds of the air shows in the US claiming to be a LW ace with 5 kills and has written a book about his wartime experiences.

Another Bowl of Kapusta: The True Life Story Of A World War II Luftwaffe Fighter Pilot and P.O.W. in Russia

He is rather vague on details, like:
- which Gruppe, staffel he flew with in JG53,
- bases he was stationed at,
- never mentions any names of his Kommandeur, his Staffelkapitän, his Kaczmarek or his close friends.

He is not in Tony Woods LW claim list but that might be an oversight. No other claims for I-16s were made in early 1945, so did he get the only ones stationed on the EF?

Respected authors John Manrho and Jochen Prien have never heard of him nor came across his name in any of their research. Niether has Hans Ring.

He declined to particpate in this thread, to set the record straight and clear the dark cloud hanging over him, Gottfried Dulias - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

 

[lesofprimus]

Evidence points to a fraud....

 

[R-2800]

I've personal met him numerous times and he is a friend of the museum i work at. I didn't see anything that would point him out as being a fruad

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well I myself have never heard of him. I will not call him a fraud or not because I simply just dont know. I did a search for him on the internet and did find many things though. Here is a link with a supposed picture of him and an autograph.

eBay: WWII GERMAN ACE OF SPADE SQUAD SIGNED GOTTFRIED DULIAS (item 150060540980 end time Mar-17-07 11:34:28 PDT)

And here is a picture of him from WW2 supposadly. Erich might have more information on this.

 

[Erich]

I have met 4 so-called veterans that claimed to be US fighter jocks and Luftwaffe fighter boys. all were bogus. In all appearance Herr G. D. is an example. not sure really why this was brought over from TOCH but here it is anyway. most likely the chap may well have been a ground crewman who decided to puff up a story and moving along with JG 53 and airfield personell knew in exact account what happened to the pilots, hierarchy. Funny that experten author Dr. Jochen P has nothing at all for Gottfired if that is his real name in any of the authors JG 53 books and indeed if Gottfried had scored at all in the air it would be included in the work(s). There is a German guy in southern Cali still living who claimed to have scored some 10 jet kills while in Gallands Circus of JV 44 pilots........bah humbug ! I searched high and low 10 years ago for nearly a year trying to find out more and German contacts said to me "who is this guy?"

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I had a friend of mine who's dad once claimed he was a WW2 pilot. It turned out he was in the AAF, never rose above the rank of corporal.

 

[Morai_Milo]

Well Erich, there is some very knowledgable people here. Maybe they have even met him or will meet him and ask him some pointed questions.

 

[Erich]

go back to TOCH and read the replies... the guy was not a pilot/ace.

an example, there was a guy living in my hometown that tried to pose as a deceased Flying Tiger pilot of which there was an ace from my town by the name of Jonnie Hampshire. Not knowing who Jonnie was at the time I was buying the guys story of shooting down 10 Japanese a/c during this guys time over China until he showed me a model of the P-51 he flew later war . ..... Urban Drews P-51 of the 361st Yellow jackets. the only change on the model was a red Heart on the fuselage up by the prop which the guy presumed I knew nothing of US air forces and told me repeatedly how great the P-51 was and the missions B.S. continued until I finally said I had to go.

there was also a story about a supposed pilot flying one of the Würger Staffels red-white striped Dora 9's and in reality although he was in several magazine articles and on the web, it was found out later through his fabricated story of high flying missions agasint US P-51's that he was really a ground crewman. the pilot of the a/c he had serviced had passed on and he decided to take some of the fame and glory..........

so you see even though some are proclaiming this G. D. is who he says he is and that I am a nobody ignor-anus, I indeed have met some of the posers out there. Man can be a deceiver through and through ..........

has anyone also thought through wounds or some sort of physical problem this guy became an instructor or actually nothing at all but on the ground - was around Staffel HQ listening to the ground to air action which he possibly memorized to fill in gaps to his incredible stories. It is highly likely.

I guess Morai if a peson wnated to ask the guy questions then start off with where and what Fligerschule did he attend, fo how long and where was it located ? when did he mover from the Schule to JG 53 or what other JG as his very start of combat flying. who did he know personally from the flight school ? From answering those basic question one can find a great deal of info whether he truly was a pilot or ........ ?

 

[Udet]

There is a little problem i see regarding the scope of this thread.

Apparently the issue is approached in such a manner you were totally sure the names of absolutely ALL them men who served in the Heer/Luftwaffe during the war can be found for sure.

Luftwaffe records are not complete and i am not referring to discussing whether a pilot shot down 4, 5 or 50 enemy planes: i am referring to NAMES.

Files, records, documents that were not properly maintained -or not maintained at all- during the last months of the war. Add the papers that were lost, destroyed, stolen and/or concealed in the same final months or righ after the end of the war, and you must know the puzzle can never be completed.

I´ve been advised of entire German families who simply dissappeared by war´s end: sons that served in combat and died or dissappeared, plus mothers, fathers and sisters and brothers who were either turned to ashes during the terror bombings of "Civilian Bomber" Harris and the guys of the 8th and 15th AFs or that were deported or relocated by the occupying victorious forces after the end.

The victorious Soviets lack anything you could call a "complete" record of the millions of guys who served in the Red Army and air force during the war; now ask the defeated side.

 

[Erich]

sorry but that is not going to work in this case Udet. The gent mentions 5 kills ........... when, where, on what front ? at least 1-2 would of been documented but none of them are. you see my point. JG 53 is well known and is covered in adequate form by the author I mentioned. The Jg 53 even has a representative. so where is or who is Gottfried really........ ? a Fallschirmjäger possibly ? the photo posted by Adler could indicate so

 

[Udet]

Erich: hi.

Please note i was not referring the speficic case of the pilot commented here. I try to make a global approach.

Whether if he lies or not, apparently nobody can tell for sure. If Luftwaffe records were complete, then you could have an accurate opinion on the veracity of the accounts of this pilot.

Just like the case of aerial kills. There are German pilots whose kills can not be confirmed; that does not mean the kill did not occur.

Flown planes. I have lists where Me 262s of JG 7 are described as having crashed in flight, with the pilot in the cockpit, and the name of the flyer remains unknown. JG 7 was a reasonably small unit, that saw combat service during a short period of time. Not too many jets flew in combat action, and we have pilots of the jet geschwader whose names remain unknown.

This, and many other cases, remind of me Guy Sajer´s "The Forgotten Soldier"; one of my favorite books. I was surprised to read comments while surfing the net suggesting the whole thing is a lie; there was one who even suggested chances are Sajer did not even serve in the Heer, at all. From what i know nobody has yet come to prove Guy Sajer´s account is fraud and that he did not serve in the Heer.

My thouhghts.

 

[Erich]

I understand your points Udet. If Gottfried had some sort of written evidence like his Flugbuch handy then that would settle things for sure

 

[timshatz]

This, and many other cases, remind of me Guy Sajer´s "The Forgotten Soldier"; one of my favorite books. I was surprised to read comments while surfing the net suggesting the whole thing is a lie; there was one who even suggested chances are Sajer did not even serve in the Heer, at all. From what i know nobody has yet come to prove Guy Sajer´s account is fraud and that he did not serve in the Heer.

My thouhghts.

Udet

Good one to bring up, "The Forgotten Solider". I have heard that criticism as well. Heard it from an interesting source that did not look at it from a Historical or Military perspective but one the venue of Literature.

According to someone who read it like an editor, the book has a style at though it is written by or/with two different people. It stays very consistent until Sajer retreats back into Prussia. At that point, the writing style changes. If you read the book with that in mind, you will see the point.

The critic that Sajer did not write it is only one way to look at it (and by far the most aggressive). He also may've been writing without notes, writing to meet a deadline or had someone actually doing the writing for him from notes or descriptions. There are a multitude of ways to look at that difference.

I personally think (and have always thought) that Sajer wrote the book. However, the style does change. I don't know why. My speculation is more along the lines of psychological/physical. I think towards the end of the war he was so beat up that he lost time, space and just forgot things. He either misses things or confabulates (unintentionally making stuff up-not big stuff, but things that go to continuity) and it accounts for the change in form.

 

[Udet]

Tim:

Thanks for the input. I´ll be honest with you for i did not detect this change in style you are commenting. Next time i grab the book i will make a more detailed screening.

I agree with you; in general i will believe what a person tells me. Unless proven otherwise he speaks with the truth. So i do believe Sajer went through the events so intensely described in his memoir.

Also you make a very good point when referring to the physical and mental conditions a common Landser had to endure in the east, especially during the last year which was a true horror story to those who were there German and Soviets, Civilian and military alike. Countless sleepless nights, long periods of time without sufficient food and even water, sometimes medical attention would not even be in place during those chaotic weeks. The constant moves and the retreat, the slaughter of civilians trying to save their lives, the screams and crying of the dying. Do you recall his account on Memel? Really, his words are so strong in that part, i really saw or felt the very end of absolutely everything; very few times a nighmare can be described so vividly.

One thing is to inquire and possibly doubt the accuracy of the accounts...and another -very different- is to get as far as to suggest "he probably did not even serve in the army...he did not fight": totally and simply going out of the line.

In all honesty, if i came across those researchers -or whatever they are- who accuse Sajer of not even being a soldier in the Heer, i´d tell them they have no right to harrass nor accuse the veteran until they walk 1/9 of a mile in his boots, but i am sure these self-proclaimed "prosecutors" would not even last half a morning in the conditions Sajer and his fellow soldiers endured.

But it is probably our fellow members here who have been to battlefields who should tell this for they are the ones acquainted with the kind of sights Sajer had to become accustomed to during the war.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Just remember folks, those who falsify their past usually has it catch up to them....


Fake retired general may face charges - Peculiar Postings - MSNBC.com

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

But it is probably our fellow members here who have been to battlefields who should tell this for they are the ones acquainted with the kind of sights Sajer had to become accustomed to during the war.

Every person reacts to and copes differently with war. One thing is for sure a part of everyone is left on the battlefield.

 

[R-2800]

that is just sad that someone would do that.

 

[timshatz]

Did you ever notice that none of these guys who claim to have been somebody are always claiming to be an ace or a general or some such? Never heare a guy claiming to be a buck private who typed through the whole war. Part of the BS detection meter. There are only so many generals but a hell of a lot of privates.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is a good point. If you really want to be believed than you have to be the grunt who did the fighting. It is too easy to look up the names of high ranking officers anyhow.

 

[R-2800]

i agree if you wanted to get away with it you wouldn't want to be a well known person like a general, becasue it can be trased