Done : Bf109K-4 of 12./JG27 "Blue 7" Gruppe Build

[rochie]

thanks for the info wayne/109 roaming and les
the profile that les supplied matches up with the instructions for the revell and for the 1/32 kit for the same machine, so unless anyone else know the profile is definatley wrong and can suggest a differing cammo pattern i'll base my entry on the information below

 

[lesofprimus]

Anyone else notice that the profile I posted up and ur directions differ in one large respect???

The profile has the 109 tall tail while the directions show the normal tail....

What does the sprued up kit actually have Karl???

 

[Njaco]

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong but they both appear to have the straight-crease wooden tail. Are you talking about another pic? K-series did have that wooden one, correct?

 

[Catch22]

Anyone else notice that the profile I posted up and ur directions differ in one large respect???

The profile has the 109 tall tail while the directions show the normal tail....

What does the sprued up kit actually have Karl???

Les, the tail in the plans IS the tall tail, it's just not tall enough. It's halfway between a normal and tall tail.

 

[Erich]

something about that yellow band behind the prop bothers me ............

I've got to steal away a few minutes and do a frei jagd in the books

just as my little light bulb thought. this should be marked blue 7 of 12./JG 27. no yellow band behind the spiral spinner. there are several pics of this cracked up crate close to Prague at wars end. what gave it away was the left fuselage wedge cam under the canopy in which the photo of Blue 7 shows. the 7 and the vertical 3rd gruppe bar are outlined in white.

 

[Njaco]

The 2 color pics also can't agree on yellow wingtips.

 

[rochie]

Les the kit is on order from the shop, it wont be despatched till jan 5th !
the instruction sheet was posted up by 109 roaming so i could check if i needed any paints ordering.

i agree with catch though the tail seems the right shape but not the right size !

Erich are the camoflage colours ok apart from the yellow band behind the prop and it should be blue 7 ?
if so what does red seven look like ??????

 

[Wayne Little]

yeah....Erich is absolutely correct about this K-4 being Blue 7 rather than Red 7.....it clicked for me too...yesterday! while trying to figure out Red Vs Blue ?........in this instance for JG 27, Blue numbers have a White outline (Ref : Blue 16) Red has a black outline (Ref : Red 23 'Ingrid')

...Sorry Rochie!...at least there is plenty of time to sort out Blue/White numbers....I will check my stash!!

Here is a good General reference profile for 'Blue 7' and the best 2 photo's.

Profile Source : Kagero Messerschmitt Bf109G/k Vol.III by Krzysztof Janowicz.

Photo Source: Luftwaffe over Czech territory 1945, JaPo, by Jiri Rajlich, Stanislav Kokoska, Ales Janda.

not sure about the yellow nose either...the area is certainly light in colour, but does not mean it is yellow. I also think the Rudder is a replacement in 75 grey/83 Green not 76 Blue/83 Green as shown in the profile, what do you think Erich?

 

[rochie]

great wayne that profile is very like the revell 1/32 instruction sheet that i saw on their site apart from saying red 7 of course !
and is that RLM 02 on the lower fusalge sides

 

[Wayne Little]

No it is not RLM 02....it is a greenish blue colour that has had a few names and RLM numbers associated with it...

It has at times been referred as similar to the RAF Sky colour too...

Maybe Erich would like to explain this colour?....but then again...he may not?

 

[spit5]

RLM 84 - Pactra A101

 

[rochie]

sorry wayne i meant the colour inside the box i've highlighted

 

[Wurger]

I agree with Wayne the colour has had a couple of names and RLM numbers.But I think that its tonality could be caused by dirt and the maintenance crew's efforts to wash it.Also possible the fuselage was painted with mentioned in the profile so-called RLM99 only and then after final plane mounting, painting undersides with RLM76.It should be remembered that the primer used in late period of the war was of the tonality and according to other sources the lack of paints caused that some colours weren't used simply.

 

[rochie]

i've managed to copy the paint guide from the revell 1/32 kit for the same aircraft to show why i was asking about RLM 02

 

[Wurger]

I understand what you mean Karl.I have the kit in my stash.I found that for late G series of Bf109 the RLM02 mottling was used and there is always a possiblility of using the colour by maintenance crews in units on K-4s.But please look at these pics again.It seems that the paint at these areas you are interested in, was applied in factory rather ( no overpainted areas that are very characteristic for airbrushing.I think that a factory didn't paint the K-4 with RLM02 when rules ordered other colour set.

 

[rochie]

so should the colours be more like this ?
from Asisbiz Messerschmitt Bf-109K

 

[Wurger]

But what about this...source the same site with your link.

 

[rochie]

you beat me to it wojtec
i've also found this what do you think ???
i know its not the same aircraft but could it have been painted the same way ?
source Camouflage Markings of Messerschmitt Me 109
Messerschmitt Me 109K-4/R-3
Stab, III. Gruppe, JG27
Germany, Late 1944

This 109K shows the brown and green style of camouflaging over various undersurface colours used by many Luftwaffe fighters closer to the end of the war; in a way it shows graphically the reversal of fortunes since 1940 when the RAF used such colours whilst German aircraft were using shades of grey.

The actual shades on this aircraft are supposed to be RLM81 Braunviolett and RLM82 Dunkelgrün camouflage pattern and mottling on top and sides with the lower fuselage in RLM84 (?) sky-green and undersides of the wings and tailplane in RLM76 Lichtblau. The designation RLM84 is speculatory; some newest research suggests that this sky-type colour could have been the RLM99 surface primer. It should also be remembered that towards the end of the war the Germans were running out of official paint stocks and many aircraft were painted with whatever paints were available and, thus, colours often varied quite a lot from the official specifications.

The spinner of the aircraft is black with a wide white spiral; underwing crosses in plain thick black outline only; upperwing crosses in thin white outline only; fuselage cross in RLM82 with thick white edges; and black swastika with thin white outline. The Gruppen Adjutant's chevron and III.Gruppe bar are black with thin white outline, whilst the wide green Reich Defence band represents JG 27.

 

[Wurger]

or this..all sources say it is the same plane.

 

[rochie]

now my head is hurting