27 May 1944, Bud Anderson's two Bf109 victory claims

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by kettbo, Oct 9, 2014.

  1. kettbo

    kettbo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    US Army (Ret)
    Location:
    Western Washington, USA
    #1 kettbo, Oct 9, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
    So I watched this video
    P51 Mustang vs Me109 - Showdown | WWII Video Archives
    Bud Anderson duel vs Bf109G Ludwigshafen mission 27 May 1944. They have a restored BUCHON, calling it "a restored Bf109G-6." Host "Max" the current USAF fighter jock looks lot taller then Hartmann, and many others....most gents back then were well under 5'10" and 170# or lighter. Tall Max has trouble fitting. He complains about the std canopy of the BUCHON, no mention of the Erla Haube that was widely-used by the time of the duel. There is the usual pro and con discussion. Most of it is actually fairly represented.

    Wondering who was flying the Bf109Gs for the LW
    I see reference to STRASSBURG in a Google search. Was this the route?

    What LW unit?
    possible ID of the 1st one Bud shoots down
    possible ID of the 2nd one that went down after he duel.
     
  2. kettbo

    kettbo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    US Army (Ret)
    Location:
    Western Washington, USA
    #2 kettbo, Oct 9, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
    found this gun camera film
    gun camera bud anderson 27 may 1944 - Bing Videos



    related no doubt but German, I will have to wade into this
    Angriff auf Ludwigshafen 27. Mai 1944

    TOCH Forum
    me 109 shoot down over strasbourg - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum
    the thread says Strasbourg, FR and lists this as a possibility
    Bf109G-6, 412292, 6./JG 27, Gelbe 3, von Buddenbrock, Fritz-Joachim. Lt. I show 11 victory credits in another thread

    I'm not sure of the bomber force or escort routes. I am guessing in the book that Strassbourg is mentioned, not sure. I anywhere near confident that this von Buddenbrock is our hot flier, the 2nd guy shot down. Help me out if you can. Pics of profile would be huge bonus!
     
  3. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer, Aircraft Restoration
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, California, U.S.A.
    The canopy IS very close, especially if you are sitting on a parachute. It's almost claustrophobic. I'd offer to get pics, but we have the canopy off while we are working on the instrument panel and, in fact, the entire cockpit. What the hell, I'll get pics anyway.

    The Hispano Ha-1112 Buchons were almost a carbon copy of the Bf 109G-6 from the firewall back. U say almost because the wings had provisions for wing-mounted armament and no fuselage nose-mounted guns since the Merlin was an upright V-12 with no provisions for firing through the propeller hub.

    But you guys knew that ...
     
  4. Mike Williams

    Mike Williams Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    28
    • Like Like x 1
  5. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7,518
    Likes Received:
    946
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The mean height of British men born 1916-1920,a typical D.O.B. for a WW2 fighter pilot, was 171.9cm (about 5'8"). The figures for Germans are not available, but in the last available figures for the 1891-95 birth cohort, the average German was about 1 cm shorter than the average Briton.

    Times change, today the average German is about 3cms taller than the average Briton (180.17cm and 176.83cm). One largely complete ancient skeleton found in England, estimated to be about 4,000 years old is of a man of about 6' 2" tall. There is no linear progression for height. It goes up and down depending on many factors. It fell sharply during the industrial revolution for example.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  6. kettbo

    kettbo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    US Army (Ret)
    Location:
    Western Washington, USA
    #6 kettbo, Oct 10, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
    Thanks Mike! Ok, so it was Strasbourg and we have the name of vonBuddenbrock as KIA in that area. What about the 'other guy' ie, plane damage/pilot wound report? And with so many claims there should be loss data somewhere. As the one KIA is 6./JG27, I'll start there.

    Missing In Action - JG 27
    this list NO JG27 pilots killed 27 May 44, more checking is due....after reading JG26 War Diaryaround 1/3 of those shot down were KIA.

    List of LW Aces here does not show our one-named guy at all
    List of World War II aces from Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Thanks too STEVE. Interesting facts. I've seen a lot of old uniforms, most are very small. Notable exception would be Gen Knox or Gen Washington's uniforms.
     
  7. Mike Williams

    Mike Williams Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    28
    A further look at the action on 27 May 1944 shows:

    Reported/admitted losses from II./JG 53
    Uffz. Hans Häussler: Killed, Shot down 3 km north of Gérardmer (~50 miles SW of Strasbourg)
    Uffz. Uff. Arnold Sottopietra: wounded and baled out, shot down near Gerbépal (~50 miles SW of Strasbourg)
    Three other 109s lost - pilots not named.

    Reported/admitted losses from II./JG 27
    Lt. Fritz-Joachim Frhr. von Buddenbrock: killed, emergency landing near Erstein (~ 6 miles south of Strasbourg), shot at ground level.
    Fw. Rudolf Philipp: killed, Lavolline (~ 50 miles SW of Strasbourg)
    Uff. Waldemar Kronenberger: killed near Gérardmer (~50 miles SW of Strasbourg)
    Three other 109s lost during comabt - pilots not named. Three additonal losses recorded as operational losses not due to enemy action.

    The 357th Fighter Group claimed 15 Me 109s destroyed in the Strasbourg area. The 352nd Fighter Group claimed 12 Me 109's destroyed, most around 40 miles south of Strasbourg.

    I don't think that Anderson shot down Buddenbrock given the nature of Bruddenbrock's demise. In my opinion, the most likely candidates for shooting down Buddenbrock are Fairweather of the 357th and Thornell or Moran of the 352nd, as thier kills involved Me 109s on the deck.
     
Loading...

Share This Page