I agree. No way that Hurricane is gonna be able to keep up with the A-10
(sorry...couldn't resist)
A-10 vs Ju-87
- Thread starter gjs238
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I agree. No way that Hurricane is gonna be able to keep up with the A-10
(sorry...couldn't resist)
davebender
1st Lieutenant
So can a Ju-87 once the bombs are gone.
If proper tactics are employed high speed maneuverability and firepower normally defeat low speed maneuverability.
If proper tactics are employed high speed maneuverability and firepower normally defeat low speed maneuverability.
Glider
Captain
The problems the A10 has are that its slow, has a poor climb, no intercept radar, has a slow acceleration and a lousy power to weight ratio. It can turn like anything and one hit from the 30mm is going to ruin anyones day, but overall the advantage will be with the fighter by quite a margin.
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Focke-Wulf Fw 189 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Supposedly this reconnaissance and army cooperation aircraft was relatively successful in evading enemy aircraft - and surviving those which it could not.
Supposedly this reconnaissance and army cooperation aircraft was relatively successful in evading enemy aircraft - and surviving those which it could not.
davebender
1st Lieutenant
The IL-2 was "relatively successful" also. Even though Germany must have shot down at least 20,000 IL-2s over a 4 year period.
Gixxerman
Senior Airman
Interesting question.
Overall I'd agree.
But, if the A10 guys stay where they are at their best force the fighter to come down low - and assuming the A10 is still carrying 1 or 2 Sidewinders - not sure which version the carry these days, M, P or X? - then I'd estimate (and obviously I would be the 1st to admit accept that have no way of actually knowing) that the Sidewinder(s) would help the A10's odds enormously.
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
Glider, I agree with your evaluation. My comments are based on the idea that the A10 might have a slightly better chance of surviving a one V one with a fighter than the JU87 would.
davebender
1st Lieutenant
Combat aircraft haven't fought that way since the early days of WWI.
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
I get mixed up. Are we talking about the A-10 survivability against todays threats or the WarPac threat it was kinda designed to take on?
Any fighter taking on an A-10 would do slash attacks.
I wonder if the Soviets ever had interception fighters designed against the A-10. A missile armed Frogfoot or anti aircraft Hind.
Any fighter taking on an A-10 would do slash attacks.
I wonder if the Soviets ever had interception fighters designed against the A-10. A missile armed Frogfoot or anti aircraft Hind.
Glider
Captain
That I certainly agree with.
drgondog
Major
I don't imagine anyone wants to make a head on 'guns' pass on a Hog..
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
Dave, there are numerous examples of one V one since WW1. One fairly recent one is the well known encounter beween an F4 with Duke Cunningham and his RIO and a Mig17(I think) with Colonel Toon(?)
drgondog
Major
does one V three and one V four count?
Leo Thorsness was 1:3 MiG 17s when he shot one down in a turning (not 360!!) fight, egressed, loaded up with fuel and came back to attack four more MiGs in a wagonwheel/lufberry over his downed flight member - and scored a probable in this encounter. 1-1-0 over MiG17s on the deck in a 105 ain't bad.
Hed did get the Medal for this one.
Leo Thorsness was 1:3 MiG 17s when he shot one down in a turning (not 360!!) fight, egressed, loaded up with fuel and came back to attack four more MiGs in a wagonwheel/lufberry over his downed flight member - and scored a probable in this encounter. 1-1-0 over MiG17s on the deck in a 105 ain't bad.
Hed did get the Medal for this one.
davebender
1st Lieutenant
Cunningham was not initially alone in that fight. He chose to stay behind when other USN aircraft left the area. A reasonable decision as he was a superior pilot flying a superior (for that time) fighter aircraft. If Randy Cunningham had been flying a CAS aircraft like the A-7 or A-10 he probably would have cleared out as soon as Migs showed up.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I think history is slowly showing us that there was no "Col. Toon." The guy Cunningham and Driscoll took on was either a Soviet or North Korean advisor/ instructor.
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
Looking outside the window...I wonder how the A-10 would have done in a Winter War agains the WarPac.
Its low speed low altitiude eyeball warfare would not do well me thinks.
Its low speed low altitiude eyeball warfare would not do well me thinks.
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
FB, that is the reason I put the question mark behind Toon's name. Whoever he was must have been a pretty skilled pilot. Actually the Mig17 was a pretty good match for the F4 in ACM in a closing fight. Cunningham has not distinguished himself since leaving the Navy although one sometimes finds it hard to get all the truth in those matters.
Ira Kepford had a low level one V four near New Ireland in which he had a couple of kills. When he landed he had been in the air four hours, much of it intense combat. In "The First Team" by Lundstrom, Thach, before Midway, instructed some pilots of TBDs how to evade a Zero at low level and a few used those tactics to get back to the carrier safely. A little remindful of what an A10 would need to do against a high performance fighter except an A10 has a little more firepower than a TBD
Ira Kepford had a low level one V four near New Ireland in which he had a couple of kills. When he landed he had been in the air four hours, much of it intense combat. In "The First Team" by Lundstrom, Thach, before Midway, instructed some pilots of TBDs how to evade a Zero at low level and a few used those tactics to get back to the carrier safely. A little remindful of what an A10 would need to do against a high performance fighter except an A10 has a little more firepower than a TBD
It was actually designed to do CAS in Western Europe duing a WP invasion. It is open to question if it would've survived (or ended up a modern day version of a Fairy Battle).
I think it would've been ok. It is a remarkable tough bird. But it was flying in a high threat environment (a WP armored column has got to be a brutal place to work) and even if it wasn't knocked down, the cumulative affect of all those holes in the aircraft would've grounded it after a while.
WW3 would've been far worse (for Aircraft) than WW2.
The issue is more of whether it would have survived the weather. Every morning when I leave my house right now, I can't see 50 feet in front of my car. The ceiling is the ground, 0-0 vis. Ground attack aircraft like the A-10 were not going to operate at altitude.
I don't know what kind of avionics packages the A-10 has or whether it is even all weather capable. I find it hard to believe that it would be able to operate at low altitudes during a typical German winter day.
