A terrible doubt regarding F4U Corsair BuNo

Discussion in 'Aircraft Requests' started by le_steph40, Nov 8, 2014.

  1. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    Hello,
    I have a doubt regarding F4U BuNo 17472... F4U-1 "Birdcage" or F4U-1A ?????? :shock:
    On Joe Baugher website the serie 17456 => 18121 are F4U-1A Corsair, therefore, BuNo 17472 is a F4U-1A. But we often see a F4U-1 "Birdcage" Corsair BuNo 17590 "white 590" flown by A. R. Conant from VMF-215...!!! May be the the real BuNo is 02590 ?
    I found this picture of apparently BuNo 17465 from VMF-222 during december 1943 and it's a F4U-1 "Birdcage"...
    a6884173-109-F4U-1A17465VMF-222Vella12-43thumb.jpg
    F4U 17465.jpg

    I don't understand... :rolleyes:
    Anyone to enlighten me ?
     
  2. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    Replacement canopy?
     
  3. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think... This "white 465" is, apparently, a real "birdcage"... We can see the rear window under the canopy. Maybe BuNo 17465 is a mistake ?
    Other thing "bizarre", "white 590" flown by A. R. Conant. The BuNo 17590 is for a F4U-1A but it's a "Birdcage canopy". But there is no rear window visible on "white 590"...
    F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVMF-223atMunda1943_zpsddb99f42.jpg

    :?::?::?:
     
  4. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Our resident Corsair expert, Cory, might be able to answer but he has not been around for a while. I could try e-mailing him if you're really stuck. Let me know.
     
  5. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    Hello Andy,

    Yes, the thing that I need to know is if the F4U BuNo 17472 is a F4U-1A or a F4U-1 "Birdcage" ? It's for one of my future projects => Robert M. Hanson aircraft flown on 1 November 1943.
    I think the BuNo of Joe Baugher'website are corrects but I asked myself when I saw some Corsairs with BuNo after 17456 identified as "Birdcage"...
    Thank you in advance to ask Cory :)
    I'm looking for photos or informations about F4U-1 "Birdcage" BuNo 17395... Is it a 3 tones scheme or 2 tones ? Was she marked/identified "white 395" ?
     
  6. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Message sent.
     
  7. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    #7 Catch22, Nov 13, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
    Ok, so I got Andy's email about this thread. All of the pictures that have been posted are of F4U-1s, not any -1As with replacement canopies. The F4U-1 had a horizontal bar on the windscreen near the top, and that was deleted on the F4U-1A. So if it has that, unless they completely replaced everything (which is doubtful), you're looking at a birdcage. As time went on, some F4U-1s had the rear windows deleted by way of painting over them. While the photo in post #3 looks like it lacks the windows entirely, I would imagine that they're still there, just overpainted as usual, and the seam lines are obscured by the canopy.

    As for the BuNo, this is the tricky part. I'd argue that Joe Baugher's site is likely correct in stating that it's an F4U-1A. Trying to find another source is like finding a needle in a haystack. Any other sources I've come across are just using his information. The biggest problem that may cause some confusion is that during the war, there was no such thing as an F4U-1A, the A was added after the war to help with identification purposes. Seeing as 17472 seems to be in the first 20 F4U-1As made, it's easy for there to be confusion.

    To sum it up, I'd trust Baugher and say 17472 is an F4U-1A. Sometimes the captions on photos can be rather incorrect and lack sources of any kind, but Baugher has an exhaustive list of 2700 sources, and is updating his site regularly.

    As for 17395, let me look in my Black Sheep books and I will add to this post.

    Alright, for 17395 I cannot seem to find a photo or even a profile of it in any of my books or on the internet. In Swashbucklers and Black Sheep by Bruce Gamble, it is mentioned that the aircraft was often flown by Boyington himself.

    Swashbucklers and Black Sheep: A Pictorial History of Marine Fighting ... - Bruce Gamble - Google Books

    It was shot down over Rabaul on December 23, 1943 while being flown by Major Carmagey (Carnagey?, the Gamble book listed above has the latter spelling, and makes more sense to me), while part of VMF-214. Major Carnagey was listed as MIA.

    Volume II: U. S. Navy, U. S. Marine Corps and U. S. Coast Guard Aircraft ... - Campbell, Ph. D. Douglas E. Campbell - Google Books

    As for how it was painted and what markings it had, I can only guess. I have no idea whatsoever what the side number would be, as there didn't seem to really be any consistency with them. Many had the last digits of the BuNo as the side number, but seemingly just as many didn't. Without having any way of truly knowing, I would just mark it with a white 395. The paint scheme would more than likely have been the 2 tone scheme and would probably look very similar to the White 590 that you've posted above. Again, that is conjecture, but at the very least what paint scheme is an educated guess. Sorry I couldn't give you a picture or anything, but hopefully that's enough to go on.
     
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  8. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see you pop in Cory and great info,

    Geo
     
  9. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    It's good to pop back in Geo, been distracted with other things!
     
  10. le_steph40

    le_steph40 Well-Known Member

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    A BIG THANK YOU Cory for your precious help :thumbright:
    I would have thought the camo of 17395 was a 3 tones camo scheme (like Birdcage "white 465" posted above) because it's in the last BuNo of F4U-1 "Birdcage"
     
  11. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem.

    Actually, I think you may be right. Way more -1s received the 2 tone, but you caught me sleeping with the block numbers! I'd go with your gut on this one. If it's three toned, it would more than likely have had the roundels with the round edging at some point, or just the straight blue. For your time period however, it would have a blue outline.
     
  12. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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