Accurate Do-217 payload chart?

[wiking85]

I found this on Google image search for Do-217 bomb bay, but this lists the internal capacity as much as 2x 1800 SD bombs, which is more than the 3000kg internal limit on wikipedia. It also includes 4x aerial mines, which is more than I've ever seen for the Do-217. Is this actually for the Do-317 or did the later marks of the Do-217 really have that large of a bomb capacity???

 

[Denniss]

Bogus, that's for the enlarged bombbay of the Do 317.

 

[wiking85]

Bogus, that's for the enlarged bombbay of the Do 317.

At the bottom it says its for the Do217K and M

 

[Koopernic]

I believe the bomb bay's practical capacity was increased from the Do 217E2 onwards by fitment of a stronger more capable internal bomb rack. I'm not entirely sure of the model but I know it did happen. Quite obviously one can't trust any source, including Wikipedia as they are often based on old work. The bomb layout sketch in fact shows up to 4 x SD1000kg, that's 4000kg or an impressive 8800lb internal. The "SD" prefixed weapons are heavy steel cased armor piercing bombs and so denser than the light case SC series. Perhaps as much as 2 x SD2500 might have physically fitted into the aircraft?


In addition there were the two outrigger bomb racks which could carry outsize loads such as the Hs 293, Fritz-X guide bombs, torpedoes, 900L drop tanks or additional external bombs. The Do 217 also had a torpedo bay, an extension to allow internal carriage of a single torpedo.

The 1750hp DB603A powered Do 217M achieved an impressive 347mph. One can imagine what might have been possible had the more powerful DB603E (which produced 1800hp greater power at much greater altitude) might have done or some of the latter DB603 which were pushing 2250, 2450 and even 2800hp. Such an aircraft, fitted with a remote control tail gun, would have been fairly efficient and cost effective.

 

[wiking85]

AFAIK the SD bombs were smaller in size per weight due to the extra weight of the thicker steel casing, so they could fit more in the same space than the thinner SC bombs with extra HE. So the chart only shows one SC2500, but could fit two SD1800 bombs. The He177 for instance could fit 6x 1000 SD bombs, but only 4x SC1000s.

 

[vikingBerserker]

Warplanes of the Third Reich by Green shows a maximum internal bomb load of 5,550lbs internally for the Do 217M-1 (page 152). Hitler's Luftwaffe by Wood/Gunston lists data for the Do 21K-1 with the same weights (page 149-151). It also shows the 2 x SC1000 being carried front to back, not side by side.

I suspect that drawing is either something they were working on or it's mislabeled.

The silhouette also resembles the Do 317 more so than the Do 217.

 

[Aozora]

The Blitz Then and Now:Vol 1 lists the Do 217's maximum bomb load as 4,000kg all up, internal and external (including the K and M-1); the largest single bomb that could be carried was the 1,800kg SC 1800 dia= 660mm overall length=3,500mm, only one of which could be fitted into the bomb-bay (pages 149, 176); the SC100 "Hermann" mentioned by viking was 2,580mm long.

I believe the bomb bay's practical capacity was increased from the Do 217E2 onwards by fitment of a stronger more capable internal bomb rack. I'm not entirely sure of the model but I know it did happen. Quite obviously one can't trust any source, including Wikipedia as they are often based on old work. The bomb layout sketch in fact shows up to 4 x SD1000kg, that's 4000kg or an impressive 8800lb internal. The "SD" prefixed weapons are heavy steel cased armor piercing bombs and so denser than the light case SC series. Perhaps as much as 2 x SD2500 might have physically fitted into the aircraft?

There's no way 2 x SD2500 - length=3,825mm x 825mm dia would have fitted into the Do 217's bomb-bay, either side by side or in tandem; I third the drawing being the projected loadout for the Do 317, mislabled as the Do 217 K or M.

 

[Aozora]

From:

Do-217E-2/4 bomb bay PC1000:

SC 1700: no room for two bombs side by side in either configuration.

 

[wiking85]

I think the Do-217M looks the same in both.
View attachment 259176

The Do-317 looks bigger:

 

[tomo pauk]

The Do-217 went from 1800 kg of internal bomb load (or 2000 kg of external) in the E-1 version to 3000 kg internal (and still 2000 kg of external) bomb load. Going for another 1000 kg of internal bombs does not seem likely?
Kennblatt for the Do-217E: link

 

[tomo pauk]

The fuselage of the Do-217, where bomb bay was located, have had trianglish cross section, vs. squarish cross section depicted at illustrations posted above, that are supposed to be from Do-217K. Please note the remark at the table:

 

[vikingBerserker]

It's the dorsal gun that is the big difference to me, Also the bottom side profile is more squared.

 

[Juha]

I found this on Google image search for Do-217 bomb bay, but this lists the internal capacity as much as 2x 1800 SD bombs, which is more than the 3000kg internal limit on wikipedia. It also includes 4x aerial mines, which is more than I've ever seen for the Do-217. Is this actually for the Do-317 or did the later marks of the Do-217 really have that large of a bomb capacity???

According to Griehl's Do 217-317-417 p. 194 the stores configurations are in fact those of Do 317A as Denniss wrote.

 

[Denniss]

The bomb bay in the Do 217 was not wide enough to carry two big bombs side-by-side. Maximum side-by-side was 2x 1000kg on the forward outer stations and a third 1000kg on the rear center station. No 4x 1000 due to length and CoG limitations.
There was no real change to the bomb bay from lat E to K/M. The FritzX-carriers may had some adaptions for them but not more.

 

[davebender]

The 1750hp DB603A powered Do 217M achieved an impressive 347mph. One can imagine what might have been possible had the more powerful DB603E (which produced 1800hp greater power at much greater altitude) might have done or some of the latter DB603 which were pushing 2250, 2450 and even 2800hp. Such an aircraft, fitted with a remote control tail gun, would have been fairly efficient and cost effective

I suspect that was the intent. Heavy bomber performance on a medium bomber budget. But like other aircraft types the idea died when Ostmarck engine plant failed to produce DB603 engines like hot rolls as promised.

 

[tomo pauk]

The DB 603s with more than 1750 HP for take off were wapourware before 1945. It took the DB until late 1`943 to iron out the bugs out of the plain vanilla DB 603A.