ADVENT 1/72nd A6M5 Reisen (Zero)

[Catch22]

Bah, found 'em Matt, and they're useless. Sorry!

 

[109ROAMING]

Hey Matt ,had a look at my revell kit and I'm now convinced its the same kit

No decal placements as well

Do you think my academy kit would be of any use?You are after decal placements?

 

[Matt308]

I'm increasingly despondent. Crum...

I've got the basics on my model. Man did it take a lot of patience to get the decals to conform to the 1962 raised panel and rivet lines. I hope that the forum members will think that my build is acceptable for such a crude kit.

Tonight I completed virtually all decals. I also finished the red DO NOT STEP lines and the HF aerial.

I'm not sure that I can do COMPLETED KITS. I just don't think I'm cut out for that. I need to post pics of my progress.

 

[109ROAMING]

Don't be so hard on yourself ,I know what the kits like.....

 

[Wayne Little]

I need the forum members help on this one. I'm at wits end. Certainly this kit has numerous errors and flaws, but I'm not looking for authenticity for the individual aircraft, just some basic direction on where these types of individual markings might be applied.

Here are the decals that I'm still working with. The two rising suns are the port and starboard fuselage national insignias.

Decal Number (1) goes on the port side forward of the horizontal stabs.

I messed up the numbering, but (2) and (3) are exactly the same, with no difference in arrow direction (i.e., arrow points forward on both sides or aft on both sides).

I have no idea where (4) goes. Likely under the cockpit.

(5) is hard to see, but looks like a scope aiming reticle. Perhaps a refueling point? It has Japanese writing below it.

(6) are propeller markings I think. With a white stripe perpendicular to the blades rotation with Japanese letters running below the white strip towards the prop hub.

Any help would be appreciated. This kit is so basic that the decals are a make or break for her. The decals are terrible. They are as thick as writing paper and my first attempts have required about 6-8 applications of Micro Sol to get them to adhere and flow across the mold lines.

decal 1 correct.
2 and 3 are stencil type dont walk/Dont touch type markings.
4 is most likely a bogus attempt at a pilot name sometimes under the cockpit but seen more on the tail...
5 No idea...
6 probably poor attempt at prop markings which are normally red or yellow without the japanese lettering.

Have attached a tail shot from the net of a Saipan Zero's tail showing japanese pilots name

 

[Micdrow]

Matt, dont go into dispare.

About 8 years ago I spent roughly 2 years researching nothing but the zero and even started writting a book more on the mechnial aspects though I never finished it as I started losing interested due to shortage of matterial though now I can find tons. Without looking it up I think the markings of your zero might be of the 302nd Kokutai. Ive got to start getting ready for work but I believe I have a black and white picture of the aircraft thats posted on the box. If you want I will see if I can find it when I get home. I would have posted sooner but I dont get up in the modeling area very much.

If really wanting a challenge on the zero see if you can find a model of this zero. Its the A6M2-K and it was used in combat a couple of times though it was made as a trainer. I beleive I may even have inside cockpit shots of both though I dont remember for sure.

As for the radio mast. Most japanese aircrews had both the radio's and sometimes even the masts removed due to the fact that Japanese radio's at the time were very unpredictable meaning they never worked half the time so they where removed to save on weight.

Hope that helps.
Paul

 

[Matt308]

Thanks, guys. Yeah, I was aware that Saburo was known to have removed his radio and mast to save on weight/drag. But didn't think that was so common.

Best I can conclude is

(1) is the data plate located portside just forward of the horizontal tail plane.

(2) and (3) might be jack points located about mid-wing between the two major wing spars with the red line parallel to the axis of flight.

(4) I think Wayne is spot on. Did manage to find an indication that it is to be located upper port wing, in the vicinity of just above the trailing port flap. A dubious spot to me to paint a pilot name where everybody walks over it. Sounds VERY un-Japanese since being touched by one's foot is so insulting in their culture.

(5) I have no idea what the heck this is. But I did manage to find indication of a similar marking on the starboard fuselage just below the windscreen. Is there an oil tank filler door/cap located here perhaps? There is a round panel line in that area, but there is one on the port side as well.

(6) Are definitely prop markings. But like Wayne said, I've never seen them in any color other than yellow. And never have I seen writing.

If you can find a quick pic, Micdrow that would be excellent. But please don't put alot of effort into it.

Thanks again, guys. Great information.

 

[Micdrow]

Hi Matt,

I did a little searching but couldnt find the photo I know is out there but did find this profile. Should help with stencil loction. Its a different number and mounts an extra 20mm cannon behind the cockpit but the 302nd was know to add it. I will see if I can find some more pictures when I get home. I have to take my son to the doctor. We both have a cold or the flu. The joys of like. Hope this helps.

 

[Matt308]

Interesting. I had already deleted the outboard 20mm and faired the shell ejection port. But would never have guessed the upward firing 20mm behind the cockpit. Never heard of that on Japanese Zekes.

My tail number is lower on the vertical stab and the numbers are smaller too. My kit indicates a yellow horizontal stripe above the numbers. I note too that your pic appears to indicate that the numbers have been painted over another set of alpha/numerals. Wonder what that is about.

Your pic also does not indicate a pilot name in Japanese kana. Now it could be that none was included, or perhaps location of the pilot kana on the upper wing just might be appropriate.

Hmmm grey spinner. Yellow prop bands. No kana on the prop. Decisions.

 

[lesofprimus]

So the Japanese had their own version of Schrage Muzik??? Ive never heard of it either Matt....

 

[Matt308]

I knew they installed it in twin engine planes in late 44 and 45. But never heard of it installed in a little Zeke. Seems like a waste of effort for a non-radar plane with a single upward firing 20mm against a B-29. Either utterly futile or suicide if you ask me.

 

[Micdrow]

I knew they installed it in twin engine planes in late 44 and 45. But never heard of it installed in a little Zeke. Seems like a waste of effort for a non-radar plane with a single upward firing 20mm against a B-29. Either utterly futile or suicide if you ask me.

It wasnt used very often and mainly used as night fighters. The 302nd commander pushed it from what Ive read for his squadon and had may aircraft in the squadron armed that way. I use to have some close pictures some where but cant find them but this one. Also here is a twin engine with an unual mounting.

 

[Matt308]

Wonderful pics, Micdrow. You have inspired me to work in my Zeke.

 

[Micdrow]

Wonderful pics, Micdrow. You have inspired me to work in my Zeke.

Very cool Matt,

Im actually starting to dig in my archives and found Ive lost quite abit of date in the last 8 years due to computer failure and stuff but am still digging. I have tommorrow off so will try and see what else I can dig up.

 

[Wayne Little]

302 Ku certainly had a few Zeroes with the upward firing cannon. Pauls example is YoD-150.

There were also J2M3 Raiden fitted with a cannon protruding from the side of the fuselage upwards....at about 30 degrees and slightly outward.

The A6M5c Zero had a 20mm wing cannon and 13mm outboard machine gun in each wing, the earlier A6M5, A6M5a and A6M5b had only the single 20mm cannon in each wing.

The tail codes were usually positioned just above the mid point of the tail plane.

 

[Micdrow]

302 Ku certainly had a few Zeroes with the upward firing cannon. Pauls example is YoD-150.

There were also J2M3 Raiden fitted with a cannon protruding from the side of the fuselage upwards....at about 30 degrees and slightly outward.

Thats interesting Wayne, you wouldnt happen to have picture of this configureation with the Raiden would you.

You might find this one interesting.

 

[Matt308]

That looks like suicide against a formation of B-29s. Assuming that you would only be able to utilize the oblique cannon in rear attacks the speed differential being so small that would make that Zeke pilot a relatively easy target as he's lining up with his single 20mm against all those .50s. Yipes.

 

[Micdrow]

That looks like suicide against a formation of B-29s. Assuming that you would only be able to utilize the oblique cannon in rear attacks the speed differential being so small that would make that Zeke pilot a relatively easy target as he's lining up with his single 20mm against all those .50s. Yipes.

Like you, I would agree it would be near suicide with this setup. I would prefer if I had a choice to have the first one above that goes through the canapay behind the pilot then the 30 degree angle one out the side of the fuselage.

 

[BombTaxi]

IMHO, a slightly less suicidal setup would have been a single 20 or 30mm weapon on the a/c centreline, angled foward about 10-15 degrees, much more like Schrage Musik. Rather than having to calculate an off set as with the weapon coning out of the fuselage side, the pilot would be able to fire from directly below the B-29, and would hopefully be in a blind spot - I believe I am right in thinking the ventral guns on a B-29 couldn't point straight down like the ball turret of a B-17/B-24 Nevertheless, it would be a night-time only system - attacking a formation of B-29s at altitude, escorted, using that kind of system would be crazy, even by Japanese standards

EDIT: Micdrow, just re-read your post and have realised that I have largely repeated your point. Apologies!!!

 

[Wayne Little]

Thats interesting Wayne, you wouldnt happen to have picture of this configureation with the Raiden would you.

You might find this one interesting.

Sure can do, will scan you a pic today....

That plan drawing is basically how the Raiden gun was set up, the Zero's gun was more vertical in the fuselage up through the canopy as you have already shown, havent seen any Zero's with the side cannon....