Aircraft Movement Cards (Air Ministry Form 78) Accident Record Cards (AM Form 1180)

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by nickbert_81, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. nickbert_81

    nickbert_81 New Member

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    #1 nickbert_81, Feb 1, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
    View attachment 458 Wellington.pdf

    View attachment Wellington BB 481 AM Form 78.pdf

    View attachment Wellington BB 481 AM Form 1180.pdf

    Crew members of a Vickers Wellington bomber from No. 458 Squadron RAAF being rescued at sea by the ship "SS Destro", after they were forced to ditch their aircraft. The airman climbing the ladder ...

    Hi,

    Please click on the above links to PDF Documents link to website for further information

    I have tracked down the mentioned bomber command cards for an incident of a Wellington VIII (Stickleback) B.B.481 belonging to the 458 Squadron RAAF going down in the Mediterranean of which my grandfather was in.

    I am unsure how to read them and what information I can get off them.

    I am in the process of making up a model plane of this wellington but am unsure of the colour scheme markings.

    Until a few weeks ago I was going to go with the Temperate Sea Scheme uppersurfaces (Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey) with White undersurfaces (fuselage sides matt white and undersurfaces gloss white).

    Last week I cam across a photo of a Wellington Bomber of the 458 Squadron with the Squadron Code MD in Night Bomber Camo.
    The number of this plane was B.B.466 which is very close to the one in the Mediterranean incident.

    Any help with the cards would be greatly appreciated.

    Kind Regards

    Nick

    458 Op Book Page 78 27.02.1943.jpg
     
  2. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Having a bit of difficulty reading the Form 78, mainly as it's presented on its side. leave it with me, and I'll check it out when I have more time. However, the card will mainly show when the aircraft was 'Taken on Charge', which Squadrons it went to and when, and when and possibly why it was 'Struck off Charge' (SoC).
    The colour scheme for the aircraft was the standard night bomber scheme, even though operating in the Med, and this was dark green and dark earth upper surfaces, with Night (black) under surfaces and fuselage sides. Codes and serials were Dull Red.
    I'll post a pic of a typical squadron aircraft later.
    Cheers,
    Terry.
     
  3. nickbert_81

    nickbert_81 New Member

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    #3 nickbert_81, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
    Hi Terry,

    Any information would be greatly appreciated.

    I'm in the process of getting a model made up and its taking some time to work out the right camo marking stickleback setup.

    How could you tell it was the standard night bomber scheme? off the card or 458 Wellington photo or knowledge? I couldn't tell if it was dark green and dark earth upper surfaces, with Night (black) under surfaces and fuselage sides or Middle stone dark earth upper surfaces, with Night (black) under surfaces (Like the attached photo off the raf.org website listed under 458 Squadron) ??????

    Also in the 458 Wellington photo the numbers look white to me ?? maybe just a poor quality photo.

    I did read the early stickleback Wellingtons in the middle east retained their original scheme. (would this have been the dark green and dark earth upper surfaces, with Night (black) under surfaces and fuselage sides)

    Is the aircraft letter stated on the loss card? I'm going to go with MD as the squadron code but unsure on the letter.

    Thanks again

    Nick

    Please click on the link below

    View attachment 458 Wellington Photo.pdf
     
  4. nickbert_81

    nickbert_81 New Member

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    #4 nickbert_81, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
    *Deleted Post* it was a double up of the post above
     
  5. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    #5 Airframes, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
    Yes, the aircraft retained the standard colour scheme as mentioned in my previous post. This is from knowledge, and the photo I have shows this scheme, and the antenna arrangement. I haven't checked the loss card yet, but this, the Form 78 and the ORB's of Squadrons rarely include the individual code letter. This is possibly due to this letter changing throughout it's service, either on a Squadron, or when moved from unit to unit. Often, the only way to determine this letter, apart from photo evidence, is from a crew member's Log Book, and even then, this isn't always certain. For example, it may be that in some entries, only the serial number is entered, and in others, just the code letter! Frustrating!
    EDIT:- Just checked the Loss Card, the ORB and the Form 78 - neither show the individual code letter, as expected. The only way is to see if there is any mention in Log Books, if you have it.
    BTW, the pic I was going to post is the same one shown in the book page you posted, and serial appears to be BB466.
    You might have to guess at an individual code letter.
    I'll see if i have any drawings of the antenna set-up, but my copy of the pic posted is a little clearer, which might help.
    Cheers,
    Terry.
     
  6. nickbert_81

    nickbert_81 New Member

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    #6 nickbert_81, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
    Hi Terry,

    Thanks for your reply,

    I was just sent an email with some 458 Squadron information from Gordon Leith of the RAF Museum in the UK.

    Attached is the 458 Wellington we spoke of earlier.

    This is exactly what i have been looking for.

    I says the colour is Mid stone dark earth upper surfaces, with Night (black) under surfaces dull red codes serials.

    All I really want to know now is if there is a birds eye view of the camo for painting purposes?

    Would you know where I could find this information?

    Thanks again

    Nick

    please see attachements below

    View attachment Wellington VIII Stickleback information for forum.pdf
    View attachment 458_Sqn_Wellington_1.pdf
     
  7. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    Hi Guys, Fascinating information. Regarding the top surface camo pattern, RAF aircraft camouflage was detailed in a particular Air Publication, which Gordon Leith at the RAF Museum would be able to get a copy for you. The bombers were painted in two different patterns, usually the colours mirrored each other, but to determine which one applied, take a look at the layout on the top of the profile you've been sent. We can presume that the darker shade was the Dark Earth. Alternatively you can look on the internet for Wellington top sides images and work out the pattern of the Dark Earth from those, otherwise without a photo of the aircraft itself it's pretty hard to get exactly right. You might need to do a bit of guesstimation.

    Gordon Leith is a former work colleague of mine; very nice fellow. He's got a thing for the Skyraider.
     
  8. buffnut453

    buffnut453 Well-Known Member

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    Chap obviously can't be trusted, then! Skyraider?!?! I ask you. Why can't he like a real man's aeroplane - the Douglas Skynight? :D

    I think I'll go now....
     
  9. nickbert_81

    nickbert_81 New Member

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    Hi,

    I recieved these Wellington Cards from RAF Museum.

    Thought I may as well upload them, they could be handy for someone else doing research.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Good stuff. The upper surface colours were eventually re-painted once in theatre, replacing the Dark Green with the Mid Stone. The profiles are from raf.org (colour), and Scale Aircraft modelling (1980s). I should have a plan view of the camouflage patter - leave it with me and I'll post it when I find it.
     
  11. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    #11 Airframes, Feb 3, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
    Just been doing some checking, and, contrary to what I stated earlier, I don't think bombers were re-painted. Certainly light and medium bombers/ground attack aircraft were painted in the desert scheme, for example, Baltimores and Beaufighters but, although I don't wish to dispute Gordon's information, I have found no evidence of Wellingtons, or Halifaxes in the MTO wearing the Dark Earth and Mid Stone scheme.
    I've examined the photo posted (and included on the book page attached) from a better print, and it certainly appears to be Dark Earth and Dark Green, judging by the tonal values. The attached page includes this info in the photo caption too.
    Here's a page from the Squadron Signal book, showing the antenna arrangements, plus that pic again, along with a plan view of the camouflage scheme.
    The darker toned areas in the drawing would be Dark Green, with the light tones in Dark Earth - IF mid stone was used, which is very doubtful, then the dark tones would be mid stone.
    Hope this helps.
     

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