Are there Soviet Air Force vs Polish Air Force encounters in 1939?
- Thread starter CHen10
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MIflyer
Captain
The USSR invaded Poland after the Germans did and did so under the subterfuge of helping the Poles defend against the Germans. Any available Polish airpower would have been at the other end of the country, fighting the Germans. By the time the Soviets entered Poland I doubt there were any Polish aircraft left. Of course, the Soviets and Germans were coordinating their efforts.
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- #3
That's a shame because it would have been very interesting to see the Luftwaffe and Soviet Air Force actually flying alongside each other as comrades.
I saw this on the internet so is it false?
Actually the statement is false. In fact the VVS supporting the Red Army didn't have to fight against the Polish Air Force almost at all.
Firstly, there was the order of the Supreme Commander of the Polish Army saying to not fight with soviets unless they would attack our troops or try to disarm them.
Secondly, the PAF didn't have too many squadrons at the eastern front and these that were there, were mostly remnants of the Pursuit Brigade destroyed in battles with the Luftwaffe. There were the only 46 PZL P.11 and 8 PZL P.7 fighters and about 20 PZL P.37 Łoś bombers from the Bomber Brigade. So if compared to the over 3 thousand aircraft used by soviets, any spectacular achievements of the VVS in the air couldn't be gained. Of course there were exceptions and a couple of dog fights occured. But these were the isolated cases only.
Thirdly , on 16/17th September 1939 most of the Polish Army was going to be evacuated to the Romania and the units that were going to defend the Polish border consisted of weakened battalions of the Border Protection Corps (KOP) numbering 12 thousand men. However, on September 16, despite large losses, the Polish Army still numbered about 650,000 soldiers. So the soviet 465 thousand soldiers with 4800 tanks had to fight against the Polish military troops that being attacked resisted fiercely. In the case the VVS could demonstrate its force. Especially that the Polish units were also tired of the fight against the Wehrmacht. The lack of the ammo and other military equipment as the AA , for instance, facilitated the soviets in accession and occupation of the Polish eastern territory.
Firstly, there was the order of the Supreme Commander of the Polish Army saying to not fight with soviets unless they would attack our troops or try to disarm them.
Secondly, the PAF didn't have too many squadrons at the eastern front and these that were there, were mostly remnants of the Pursuit Brigade destroyed in battles with the Luftwaffe. There were the only 46 PZL P.11 and 8 PZL P.7 fighters and about 20 PZL P.37 Łoś bombers from the Bomber Brigade. So if compared to the over 3 thousand aircraft used by soviets, any spectacular achievements of the VVS in the air couldn't be gained. Of course there were exceptions and a couple of dog fights occured. But these were the isolated cases only.
Thirdly , on 16/17th September 1939 most of the Polish Army was going to be evacuated to the Romania and the units that were going to defend the Polish border consisted of weakened battalions of the Border Protection Corps (KOP) numbering 12 thousand men. However, on September 16, despite large losses, the Polish Army still numbered about 650,000 soldiers. So the soviet 465 thousand soldiers with 4800 tanks had to fight against the Polish military troops that being attacked resisted fiercely. In the case the VVS could demonstrate its force. Especially that the Polish units were also tired of the fight against the Wehrmacht. The lack of the ammo and other military equipment as the AA , for instance, facilitated the soviets in accession and occupation of the Polish eastern territory.
I agree - only a few attempts to attack individual Soviet reconnaissance aircraft were registered, and there was practically no air combat.
Curiously enough, the Soviets received the most interesting trophies even before the invasion began - on September 13, two Polish bombers (Łoś type) got lost and landed near Mozyr.
The Soviet Air Force attacked the Polish troops, but their activity was very moderate, and there were cases of "friendly fire". In general, the role of Soviet aviation can be considered as rather insignificant.
The source is the article "Aviation in the Soviet-Polish conflict" by Vladimir Kotelnikov, 2012 (in Russian).
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Slovakia provided about three squadrons to the invasion, operating alongside the Luftwaffe.
Their missions including bombing, reconnaissance and fighter escort mission for the Luftwaffe's Ju87 units.
- Thread starter
- #7
I found this which shows the Soviets did shoot down some Polish aircraft
And here is Polish claims against Soviets
And here is Polish claims against Soviets
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- #8
I can only find one victory by the Slovaks during the Polish Campaign, with it being claimed by František Hanovec
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Polish military hadn't fully mobilized by 1 September 1939 and thosr that were able to get operational were to the north-west and bore the brunt of the German's offensive.
Slovakian military elements approached from the south and saw very little resistance in contrast.
Barrett
Staff Sergeant
I was fortunate to know Witold Urbanowicz and his impressive wife Magda. He scored victories against Russia, Germany, and Japan (cadged a tour with the 14th AF).
He claimed a Soviet recon aircraft in 1936, type unknown.
He claimed a Soviet recon aircraft in 1936, type unknown.
most probable it was Polikarpov R-5...
