Avia S-199
- Thread starter VA5124
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #3
I just wanted to see the specs because their adding it to war thunder in the isarel tech tree
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
What "specs" are you looking for? Have you tried Wiki? Avia S-199 - Wikipedia
- Thread starter
- #5
everything is there except the sercive celing
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I'm showing 2 sources that say 28,000' and 37,000'
- Thread starter
- #7
ok thats the last number i need
The Jumo 211 had a right hand rotation (viewed from the cockpit) just like the DB601/605. http://www.airpowerworld.info/other-fighter-planes/avia-s-199.jpg
The Hispano-Suizza 12Z-17 in the HA-1109 had a left hand rotation. https://live.staticflickr.com/5049/5364435452_f15da9a87f_b.jpg
special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,661
- May 13, 2018
There was apparently a mysterious fire where the D-B engines were stored ruining most of them.
Maybe I can answer some questions. I literally wrote the book on the S-199. 
Amazon product ASIN B07ND8PM9V
This is also mine: S-199s
Service ceiling: I have no idea. I doubt the Israeli S-199s ever even got to an altitude that required oxygen. The cabin was not pressurized.
Frankenstein: Czechoslovakian factories had manufactured arms for the Germans during World War II. Avia, a Skoda Works subsidiary, produced aircraft, including the Arado Ar 96, for the Luftwaffe. Germany intended to produce the Bf 109G-14 at Avia starting in early 1945, but the course of war overtook those plans. When Germany pulled out of Czechoslovakia, it left much of the manufacturing capacity intact, and after the war, the Czechoslovakian military initiated production of the type for the country's new air force.
Avia test pilot Petr Siroky flew the first example, designated a C-10 with radio number V-9, on its maiden flight 22 February 1946. It was powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 605AM engine, one of a small stock left in the country. The wing bulges for wide wheels, breech blisters, non-retractable tail wheel, and trailing fin extensions on the rudder leave no doubt that the C-10 was based on the G-14 variant of the Bf 109.
Avia, and licensee Aero, eventually fitted 29 airframes with DB 605AM engines in a single-seat fighter called the S-99 and two as a dual-seat CS-99 trainer, essentially a Bf 109G-12.
Unfortunately for Avia, fire swept through the building that housed the Daimler-Benz engines, destroying them all. But Czechoslovakian factories could still provide large numbers of the Junkers Jumo 211F engines they had produced during the war to power Heinkel He 111H bombers, and Avia's engineers decided to try to install it in the S-99.
Both the Jumo 211 and the DB 605 were 12-cylinder, inverted-V, liquid-cooled engines, but the Jumo 211F produced only 75% of the DB 605AM's power at takeoff and less than 85% of its maximum continuous power. The two engines weighed about the same, but the Jumo drove the massive VS 11 propeller that produced much more torque and P-factor (airflow twisting force) than the standard fighter propeller married to the DB 605. The VS 11 was wood coated with a thin layer of plastic with leading edges of brass.
Nor did the Jumo 211 allow a cannon to fire through the spinner hub. Forced to remove the standard 20mm MG 151/20 from that position, Avia installed what the Luftwaffe called the Rüstsatz 6: a MG 151/20 gun pod with 120 rounds per gun under each wing. The cowl guns remained 13mm MG 131 machine guns with 300 rounds per gun. The ETC 50/VIId bomb rack could in theory carry up to four 70kg bombs or a 300L drop tank. In practice, the S-199 was limited to two 70kg bombs because the load impinged on its already dubious performance and handling.
Sabotage: The pilots and ground crews thought that anti-Semitic Czechoslovakians were sabotaging their aircraft but there's no evidence for that. One of the problems was that the gun synchronisation sometimes failed to compensate for the wider VS 11 propeller, so the cowl machine guns would occasionally shoot holes in the propeller blades. This did not happen on every S-199, so it's difficult to know whether the synchronisation gear was improperly designed or improperly installed in Czechoslovakia, or if it was a maintenance problem in Israel.
Armored column attack on May 29: LOL. The Egyptians were estimated to have 500 vehicles, among them a total of ten tanks. The attack did paralyze the Egyptians, though.
Amazon product ASIN B07ND8PM9VThis is also mine: S-199s
Service ceiling: I have no idea. I doubt the Israeli S-199s ever even got to an altitude that required oxygen. The cabin was not pressurized.
Frankenstein: Czechoslovakian factories had manufactured arms for the Germans during World War II. Avia, a Skoda Works subsidiary, produced aircraft, including the Arado Ar 96, for the Luftwaffe. Germany intended to produce the Bf 109G-14 at Avia starting in early 1945, but the course of war overtook those plans. When Germany pulled out of Czechoslovakia, it left much of the manufacturing capacity intact, and after the war, the Czechoslovakian military initiated production of the type for the country's new air force.
Avia test pilot Petr Siroky flew the first example, designated a C-10 with radio number V-9, on its maiden flight 22 February 1946. It was powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 605AM engine, one of a small stock left in the country. The wing bulges for wide wheels, breech blisters, non-retractable tail wheel, and trailing fin extensions on the rudder leave no doubt that the C-10 was based on the G-14 variant of the Bf 109.
Avia, and licensee Aero, eventually fitted 29 airframes with DB 605AM engines in a single-seat fighter called the S-99 and two as a dual-seat CS-99 trainer, essentially a Bf 109G-12.
Unfortunately for Avia, fire swept through the building that housed the Daimler-Benz engines, destroying them all. But Czechoslovakian factories could still provide large numbers of the Junkers Jumo 211F engines they had produced during the war to power Heinkel He 111H bombers, and Avia's engineers decided to try to install it in the S-99.
Both the Jumo 211 and the DB 605 were 12-cylinder, inverted-V, liquid-cooled engines, but the Jumo 211F produced only 75% of the DB 605AM's power at takeoff and less than 85% of its maximum continuous power. The two engines weighed about the same, but the Jumo drove the massive VS 11 propeller that produced much more torque and P-factor (airflow twisting force) than the standard fighter propeller married to the DB 605. The VS 11 was wood coated with a thin layer of plastic with leading edges of brass.
Nor did the Jumo 211 allow a cannon to fire through the spinner hub. Forced to remove the standard 20mm MG 151/20 from that position, Avia installed what the Luftwaffe called the Rüstsatz 6: a MG 151/20 gun pod with 120 rounds per gun under each wing. The cowl guns remained 13mm MG 131 machine guns with 300 rounds per gun. The ETC 50/VIId bomb rack could in theory carry up to four 70kg bombs or a 300L drop tank. In practice, the S-199 was limited to two 70kg bombs because the load impinged on its already dubious performance and handling.
Sabotage: The pilots and ground crews thought that anti-Semitic Czechoslovakians were sabotaging their aircraft but there's no evidence for that. One of the problems was that the gun synchronisation sometimes failed to compensate for the wider VS 11 propeller, so the cowl machine guns would occasionally shoot holes in the propeller blades. This did not happen on every S-199, so it's difficult to know whether the synchronisation gear was improperly designed or improperly installed in Czechoslovakia, or if it was a maintenance problem in Israel.
Armored column attack on May 29: LOL. The Egyptians were estimated to have 500 vehicles, among them a total of ten tanks. The attack did paralyze the Egyptians, though.
RichardSuhkoi
Airman 1st Class
- 158
- Apr 27, 2021
Maybe I can answer some questions. I literally wrote the book on the S-199.
This is also mine: S-199s
Service ceiling: I have no idea. I doubt the Israeli S-199s ever even got to an altitude that required oxygen. The cabin was not pressurized.
Frankenstein: Czechoslovakian factories had manufactured arms for the Germans during World War II. Avia, a Skoda Works subsidiary, produced aircraft, including the Arado Ar 96, for the Luftwaffe. Germany intended to produce the Bf 109G-14 at Avia starting in early 1945, but the course of war overtook those plans. When Germany pulled out of Czechoslovakia, it left much of the manufacturing capacity intact, and after the war, the Czechoslovakian military initiated production of the type for the country's new air force.
Avia test pilot Petr Siroky flew the first example, designated a C-10 with radio number V-9, on its maiden flight 22 February 1946. It was powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 605AM engine, one of a small stock left in the country. The wing bulges for wide wheels, breech blisters, non-retractable tail wheel, and trailing fin extensions on the rudder leave no doubt that the C-10 was based on the G-14 variant of the Bf 109.
Avia, and licensee Aero, eventually fitted 29 airframes with DB 605AM engines in a single-seat fighter called the S-99 and two as a dual-seat CS-99 trainer, essentially a Bf 109G-12.
Unfortunately for Avia, fire swept through the building that housed the Daimler-Benz engines, destroying them all. But Czechoslovakian factories could still provide large numbers of the Junkers Jumo 211F engines they had produced during the war to power Heinkel He 111H bombers, and Avia's engineers decided to try to install it in the S-99.
Both the Jumo 211 and the DB 605 were 12-cylinder, inverted-V, liquid-cooled engines, but the Jumo 211F produced only 75% of the DB 605AM's power at takeoff and less than 85% of its maximum continuous power. The two engines weighed about the same, but the Jumo drove the massive VS 11 propeller that produced much more torque and P-factor (airflow twisting force) than the standard fighter propeller married to the DB 605. The VS 11 was wood coated with a thin layer of plastic with leading edges of brass.
Nor did the Jumo 211 allow a cannon to fire through the spinner hub. Forced to remove the standard 20mm MG 151/20 from that position, Avia installed what the Luftwaffe called the Rüstsatz 6: a MG 151/20 gun pod with 120 rounds per gun under each wing. The cowl guns remained 13mm MG 131 machine guns with 300 rounds per gun. The ETC 50/VIId bomb rack could in theory carry up to four 70kg bombs or a 300L drop tank. In practice, the S-199 was limited to two 70kg bombs because the load impinged on its already dubious performance and handling.
Sabotage: The pilots and ground crews thought that anti-Semitic Czechoslovakians were sabotaging their aircraft but there's no evidence for that. One of the problems was that the gun synchronisation sometimes failed to compensate for the wider VS 11 propeller, so the cowl machine guns would occasionally shoot holes in the propeller blades. This did not happen on every S-199, so it's difficult to know whether the synchronisation gear was improperly designed or improperly installed in Czechoslovakia, or if it was a maintenance problem in Israel.
Armored column attack on May 29: LOL. The Egyptians were estimated to have 500 vehicles, among them a total of ten tanks. The attack did paralyze the Egyptians, though.
RichardSuhkoi
Airman 1st Class
- 158
- Apr 27, 2021
Loved your book.
I met once a former Pilot. He told me the throttle response was poor but better than the Czech Me-262.
I can only imagine how fast the DB605 with constant speed prop would be to get power with engine RPM already high and simply adding supercharger flow to increase manifold pressure. I am guessing less than 5 seconds from flight idle to takeoff. Then I imagine the horrible fixed prop on the Czech version and horrible slow accel. It must have been scary to do go-around.
I met once a former Pilot. He told me the throttle response was poor but better than the Czech Me-262.
I can only imagine how fast the DB605 with constant speed prop would be to get power with engine RPM already high and simply adding supercharger flow to increase manifold pressure. I am guessing less than 5 seconds from flight idle to takeoff. Then I imagine the horrible fixed prop on the Czech version and horrible slow accel. It must have been scary to do go-around.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Webs - great information and welcome to the forum. I hope you participate more as I know there would be a lot of interest in Bf109 derivatives.Maybe I can answer some questions. I literally wrote the book on the S-199.
This is also mine: S-199s
Service ceiling: I have no idea. I doubt the Israeli S-199s ever even got to an altitude that required oxygen. The cabin was not pressurized.
Frankenstein: Czechoslovakian factories had manufactured arms for the Germans during World War II. Avia, a Skoda Works subsidiary, produced aircraft, including the Arado Ar 96, for the Luftwaffe. Germany intended to produce the Bf 109G-14 at Avia starting in early 1945, but the course of war overtook those plans. When Germany pulled out of Czechoslovakia, it left much of the manufacturing capacity intact, and after the war, the Czechoslovakian military initiated production of the type for the country's new air force.
Avia test pilot Petr Siroky flew the first example, designated a C-10 with radio number V-9, on its maiden flight 22 February 1946. It was powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 605AM engine, one of a small stock left in the country. The wing bulges for wide wheels, breech blisters, non-retractable tail wheel, and trailing fin extensions on the rudder leave no doubt that the C-10 was based on the G-14 variant of the Bf 109.
Avia, and licensee Aero, eventually fitted 29 airframes with DB 605AM engines in a single-seat fighter called the S-99 and two as a dual-seat CS-99 trainer, essentially a Bf 109G-12.
Unfortunately for Avia, fire swept through the building that housed the Daimler-Benz engines, destroying them all. But Czechoslovakian factories could still provide large numbers of the Junkers Jumo 211F engines they had produced during the war to power Heinkel He 111H bombers, and Avia's engineers decided to try to install it in the S-99.
Both the Jumo 211 and the DB 605 were 12-cylinder, inverted-V, liquid-cooled engines, but the Jumo 211F produced only 75% of the DB 605AM's power at takeoff and less than 85% of its maximum continuous power. The two engines weighed about the same, but the Jumo drove the massive VS 11 propeller that produced much more torque and P-factor (airflow twisting force) than the standard fighter propeller married to the DB 605. The VS 11 was wood coated with a thin layer of plastic with leading edges of brass.
Nor did the Jumo 211 allow a cannon to fire through the spinner hub. Forced to remove the standard 20mm MG 151/20 from that position, Avia installed what the Luftwaffe called the Rüstsatz 6: a MG 151/20 gun pod with 120 rounds per gun under each wing. The cowl guns remained 13mm MG 131 machine guns with 300 rounds per gun. The ETC 50/VIId bomb rack could in theory carry up to four 70kg bombs or a 300L drop tank. In practice, the S-199 was limited to two 70kg bombs because the load impinged on its already dubious performance and handling.
Sabotage: The pilots and ground crews thought that anti-Semitic Czechoslovakians were sabotaging their aircraft but there's no evidence for that. One of the problems was that the gun synchronisation sometimes failed to compensate for the wider VS 11 propeller, so the cowl machine guns would occasionally shoot holes in the propeller blades. This did not happen on every S-199, so it's difficult to know whether the synchronisation gear was improperly designed or improperly installed in Czechoslovakia, or if it was a maintenance problem in Israel.
Armored column attack on May 29: LOL. The Egyptians were estimated to have 500 vehicles, among them a total of ten tanks. The attack did paralyze the Egyptians, though.
