Avro Manchester
- Thread starter herman1rg
- Start date
Shortround6
Lieutenant General
Not sure when you are talking about.
The class of '36 medium bombers are later in timing to the Vickers Wellington and cousins.
The Class of '36 includes.
Avro 679
Boulton Paul P.91
Bristol P.13/36 (Hercules engines)
Fairey P.13/36 (P.24 engines)
Handley Page HP.56
Hawker P.13/36
Shorts P.13/36
Vickers P.13/36
All of the aircraft design except the ones noted were to use the Vulture engines. 2 had Sabre alternates.
Goals for all was the requirement to carry 8000lb of bombs 2,000 miles and go 3,000 miles with a lighter load.
desired max Cruise speed was 275mph.
There is no way any Merlin being contemplated in 1936-37 could offer that sort of performance so there was no such proposal. Even late war Merlins could not offer the performance desired, max combat is not 30 minute climb performance.
To answer your question about the Manchester, as early as 1937 Avro had considered fitting four engines to the Avro 679 as it was at that stage of development. One idea was to fit Bristol Hercules' to it, although drawings weren't produced until 1939. The decision to convert the Manchester airframe to a four engined aircraft, which required a few changes to the load bearing structure was confirmed in-house at Avro in early 1940 but had been ongoing since 1937. The work was done without an official specification, because the Minister of Aircraft Production had no interest in it, believing its performance would not match the Halifax, which was proving deficient performance-wise in prototype form. Once the prototype of the Manchester Mk.III as the Lancaster was initially designated, an operational requirement was prepared to enable production lines to convert to the new type.
Answering the other part of your question, the twins already in RAF service before the war and early war, the Armstrong Whitworth Whitley and Vickers Wellington were considered heavy bombers at the time. They were not reclassed as medium bombers until the Short Stirling and Halifax entered service. The earlier bombers were developed much earlier than P.13/36, to which the Manchester and HP.56, paper predecessor to the HP.57 Halifax were designed. They were already under development and even if the Manchester had progressed, like the HP.57 as a four-engined bomber, they would have continued in their development line unchanged. At the time that P.13/36 was released, the Air Ministry had also released B.12/36, which Short Bros was offered to contract to build the Stirling.
Nice. The first "original projected Manchester" from the drawings above was the Avro 679 in its initial form, what Avro submitted to the P.13/36 specification. This evolved into what became the Manchester and there were significant changes made before the design eventually settled on.
The "Manchester alternative armament" was utilising Boulton Paul multi-gun power turrets armed with 20 mm cannon that didn't come to fruition. These turrets were added to several companies' paper projects to pre-war specifications as they offered a promising means of adopting power turrets, which were added to every bomber specification at the time. BP even projected a turret fighter with one of these heavy turrets fitted to it, flying a scale prototype to test the idea. The turrets were never developed because of the expediencies of wartime needs.
The Hercules engined variation appears to be a twin engined variation on the four engined Hercules Manchester proposed the same year.
The Centaurus engined variant was a later date, most likely a 1940 iteration because of the extended vertical fin design as fitted to the Lancaster. This was originally fitted to the Manchester Mk.III, the Lancaster prototype, which, being a converted Manchester off the production line had the smaller endplate fins and the wooden central fin, because of instability. Once the large endplate fins were designed, these were retro-fitted to production line Manchester Mk.Is to create the Manchester Mk.Ia variant. Note also the Nash & Thompson FN.7 top turret, which also helps date this drawing. It was most definitely an in-house proposal rather than a ministry sanctioned idea as the MAP rejected the notion that the Manchester should be further developed.
Lastly, the four engined Manchester Mk.III became the Lancaster, as we know. A drawing probably dating from 1940 as well.
The "Manchester alternative armament" was utilising Boulton Paul multi-gun power turrets armed with 20 mm cannon that didn't come to fruition. These turrets were added to several companies' paper projects to pre-war specifications as they offered a promising means of adopting power turrets, which were added to every bomber specification at the time. BP even projected a turret fighter with one of these heavy turrets fitted to it, flying a scale prototype to test the idea. The turrets were never developed because of the expediencies of wartime needs.
The Hercules engined variation appears to be a twin engined variation on the four engined Hercules Manchester proposed the same year.
The Centaurus engined variant was a later date, most likely a 1940 iteration because of the extended vertical fin design as fitted to the Lancaster. This was originally fitted to the Manchester Mk.III, the Lancaster prototype, which, being a converted Manchester off the production line had the smaller endplate fins and the wooden central fin, because of instability. Once the large endplate fins were designed, these were retro-fitted to production line Manchester Mk.Is to create the Manchester Mk.Ia variant. Note also the Nash & Thompson FN.7 top turret, which also helps date this drawing. It was most definitely an in-house proposal rather than a ministry sanctioned idea as the MAP rejected the notion that the Manchester should be further developed.
Lastly, the four engined Manchester Mk.III became the Lancaster, as we know. A drawing probably dating from 1940 as well.
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
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