B-17 Canard?

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Tankworks, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Tankworks

    Tankworks Member

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    While poring through images trying to answer quizes I came across a pic of a B-17 in canard configuration, this is a photoshopped hoax, right?
     
  2. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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  3. rank amateur

    rank amateur Member

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    Would be interesting to have a modeller come up with a flying model though?
     
  4. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    #4 N4521U, Jun 21, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
    Has anyone ever considered how big that canard would have to be?
    The size, position and shape of the wing in the rear?
    For the loads to be carried?

    Would be interesting to make these applications to the existing airframe, would it not?
    How would the spar be fitted thru the fuselage?

    I was fortunate enough to go for a ride in a Long Easy, what a great machine. I'm only 6', but we had to take all the padding of the seat so as not to hit the canopy with me noggin!

    Anyone?
     
  5. Tankworks

    Tankworks Member

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    I had not heard of that one so had to look it up. It looks like you would just strap it on!
     
  6. model299

    model299 Member

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    #6 model299, Jun 21, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
    The singer John Denver was killed when he crashed a Long Eze.
     
  7. davparlr

    davparlr Well-Known Member

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    There were a lot more problems than this, including poor cockpit layout and failure to fill up the plane. He had many hours and many ratings.
     
  8. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    100% NOT TRUE.

    The story about him not having a check out is a myth. He did have a check out as stated in the accident report. Denver had over 2,700 hours in various aircraft and even held a type rating in a Learjet. He was multi-engine rated and held and an instrument rating, glider and seaplane rating. He did receive a checkout the day prior to the accident which was about 30 minutes and should be considered appropriate for a pilot of Denver's experience. What killed Denver was the inability of being able to transfer fuel from one tank to another due to the location of the fuel transfer valve which was placed for some crazy reason, at the pilot's left shoulder area. Even the gauges were positioned there which was totally crazy. Denver and his mechanic talked about repositioning the fuel transfer valve between the pilot's legs where it is normally located and it was also noted the valve was very hard to move. Denver went out with half tanks and the mistake that killed him was not topping off prior to flight and of course not being able to switch fuel tanks.

    The plane should never been certificated by the DER or FAA PMI who issued the airworthiness certificate because of this condition with the fuel transfer valve. Denver is also responsible for inadequately understanding the systems limitation of his aircraft. This was inherent in that particular aircraft's construction and no additional checkout would have corrected the hazard potential of this manufacturing flaw.

    The NTSB did mention "transition training" which considering the types of aircraft Denver had flown was pretty ridiculous. I think mentioning this was pretty naive by the NTSB because this aircraft is extremely simple to fly and the author of the accident report probably never flown a Long-Eze. Denver did not have a valid medical because of prior drunk driving arrest and should not have been flying period - based on that fact, not his ability to fly a Long-Eze
     
  9. model299

    model299 Member

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    I stand corrected. Thanks FLYBOYJ. Next time I'll do a bit more reseach before zipping a post off.
     
  10. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    No worries - I knew people who worked on this accident. As usual the media did a terrific job covering it.
     
  11. model299

    model299 Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Yeah, a great job. Speaking of canards, eh???
     
  12. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    The Long Eze, based on my only ride in one and being handed the controls for take of and cruise, is just a beautiful plane to fly. It slides thru the air. In banking, you have to correct the bank or it will continue sliding.

    The only problem with homebuilts, IMHO, is the builder, some certified idiots, put things like the fuel transfer valve wherever they bloody well please, no rhyme or reason. Same applies to Eagles or Ezes, Lance Aires. I've been in a lot of them. I knew one fellow had punched a hole in the rear fuselage of his plane, went to the hardware and got a small sheet of ordinary aluminum and patched it with pop rivets. Didn't find out about this till after a flight in it and he wanted to show me a split S. He owned the plane, not even a license to fly it!

    I remember the Denver accident, it was just waiting to happen. Sometimes you just gotta shake your head.
     
  13. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    As stated earlier - you'll find builders who do some pretty stupid things. When the aircraft is inspected for issuance of its airworthiness certificate it's up to the DER or the FAA PMI to ensure things like this aren't allowed to exist on the aircraft and in the case with Denver, it led to a fatality.

    The fellow you mention - if he's not licensed he's breaking the law. Is he an A&P? If he is not having yearly condition inspections done by either an A&P or if he's not the designated builder/ repairman who is authorized to inspect and do repairs on the aircraft, that's a double whammy. Depending where the hole is in the fuselage may not be a big deal as fiberglass is pretty resilient but he not having a license makes me wonder. Stay clear of that guy, he may be a smoking hole waiting to happen.
     
  14. JS P-47

    JS P-47 New Member

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    Definitly a hoax. I have seen the background of that same photo on the original (un-canarded B-17) pic.
     
  15. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    I guess I was a little unclear about the plane and repair in question. This one happened to be an all metal aircraft. Can't for the life of me remember the name. Low wing, tandem 2 seater, tricycle, 100 hp, the logo is like a little American Indian doll.

    He had punched a hole in the rear underside below the horiz stab. He owned the plane, had taken lessons but never finished, I didn't find out till long after the flight. Not hardly an A&P. The repair was caught at the next "inspection", only because he decided to have "other" work done and the repairer wouldn't give him the plane back unless it, and other issues were corrected.

    The Lancair flight was magic. The builder put a sharp ended taper on all the control surfaces, his story. This made the controls a little more weighty, he wanted a fighter plane feel to it. Man was that little plastic plane fast, and a thrill to fly.

    I was a ramp tramp around this time, and everyone and their brother was willing to take me flying. All I had to do was letter their plane! One of the true benefits of being a sign painter!
     
  16. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    Specifically the NTSB report cited the lack of transition training as being a "primary factor" in the accident,along with others you've already mentioned.
    You can't pick and choose which part of the report you agree with. It's in the report whether "ridiculous" and "naive" or not.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  17. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    How can there be more than one "primary factor"? I think you are picking nits, Steve.
     
  18. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

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    If I understand you guys right, Denver died because the aircraft got out of it's CG limits, and was uncontrolable, because he didn't transfer fuel?

    Wouldn't the condition come on gradually, so that he'd notice , before it reaches point of no control?
     
  19. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Define transition training when dealing with a pilot that had more than 2,700 hrs, MEL, SEL instrument and glider rating and typed in a Lear Jet - there's no such thing!!!! Additionally I could bet dollars to donuts that there isn't even an FAA approved Long-Eze training program. You don't "transition" into an aircraft that you've already been trained to fly, plain and simple.

    There are dozens of NTSB reports that are "ridiculous" and "naive" because the accident investigators know little or nothing about the aircraft they are investigating and in some cases aren't even rated pilots.
     
  20. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Nothing to do with C/G. He didn't transfer fuel and the engine stopped. He might have been attempting to switch the fuel valve when he hit the water
     
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