Battle of Britain 2010 Group build....

[Lucky13]

Right.....

Thought that I'd start this thread to learn more about Battle of Britain, that was fought in the skies over UK between 10 July 1940 and 31 October 1940. This is an air battle that I sadly don't know much about , but now I have over a year to learn before the GB starts....8)
Am curious as to why Luftflotte 5 took part in the fighting all the way from Norway, especiallly II. Gruppe from JG77, flying Bf 109's!
What was the idea with that, thinking that they couldn't have been able to get much time over UK for fighter vs fighter action....right?

 

[Airframes]

Not sure about the fighter element from Norway or Denmark Jan, but the bombers sure 'had a go'.
The targets were, supposedly, the industrial key areas around Newcastle upon Tyne, Gateshead, Middlesborough and Sunderland,with some RAF airfields and other industrial towns also targeted. Raids were also directed fiurther north of course, around the naval bases on the Firth of Forth.
Many accounts of the Battle gloss over these raids, giving the impression, as the BoB movie did to an extent, that the Luftwaffe launched one big raid, unescorted, got decimated, and abandoned the plan. Whilst some, if not most of the daylight raids were badly hit by fighters, a considerable amount of damage was inflicted. A major, and important target on the banks of the River Tyne was the Vickers works, which was about two miles long, plus, near by, there were storage warehouses holding valuable supplies (eg sugar) and other industry, and this was attacked on a number of occassions, particularly when the raids swithched to night bombing.
I'm not aware of any Bf109's providing escort for the bombers to the north east, although I have heard of Bf110's being used, albeit in vague accounts.

 

[rochie]

i'm sure i've read somewhere that the first luftwaffe aircraft to crashland on english soil happened in the north east not that far from where i live and there's a bridge in stockton that still bears the scars from shrapanel from a german bomb

 

[fly boy]

i don't have anything but if i do i will make it and post it

 

[109ROAMING]

^

 

[Heinz]

Well thats conclusive.

The lack of 109s to the North East was due to the lesser fighter threat yes?

 

[Lucky13]

Makes you wonder, it's, what....400-450 miles (640-720 Km) between Stavanger and the British east coast, couldn't have more fuel left than for 10-15 minutes of combat....if you flew with JG77.

Btw, didn't the '109F first see combat during BoB?

 

[Airframes]

There was plenty of fighter activity in the north during the BoB. Not as much as 11 Group in the south of course, but enough Squadrons at Turnhouse, Acklington, Usworth, Digby etc, to repel any raids, or at least do serious damage. Apart from the 'active' Squadrons, there were those sent north for a 'rest' period, where the relative quiet would provide time for a 'breather'.
The distance to and from the north of England and Scotland, for units based in Norway and Denmark, wasn't really suited to operations by '109's. Bearing in mind the fuel used by throttle 'jockeying' to maintain station on the bombers, it would have been a very close run exerise. However, Scandinavian-based '110's were operational, and IIRC, the '110 'Dachelbuchs' were operational out of Aalborg, northern Denmark as well.
Although the early Bf109F was around, and I believe Molders used one, they weren't really in the 'official' Battle. I'd need to check, but I think they began operations over Britain, in limited numbers, in November 1940. At this time, there were still problems with the wing stresses, with some aircraft lost, with their pilots, due to failure of the wing at the root.

 

[Lucky13]

Just wondering about the II./JG77 old chap, since they're mentioned in a OOB in August 1940 for the Battle of Britain....

 

[Njaco]

Jan, I believe Luftflotte 5 was involved because it was thought by Goering that all the Spits and Hurricanes were in the south, thereby leaving the north undefended. Bad mistake.

I was going to start a "This Day in the BoB" thread as soon as the "Europe" thread is done. Might start it sooner.

 

[lesofprimus]

Im gonna have to think long and hard about this Build and what I want to do.... I may break precednence and build a Spitfire, but seeing how the Commonwealth Build may come before the BoB, I may do a Spit for that and a 109 for the BoB....

Either way, I want to see how Jan does with his stiped camo job on his E-3 before I get much further....

 

[Lucky13]

I can tell to you that Brother, that I'm gagging to start building it! But, I need an E-3 first... It's time as well, I think, to find other potential "13's" for this GB. Who else was involved of the JG's?
Have already decided that I want to build a No. 74 Squadron Spitfire for this.

 

[muller]

Jan, I'd highly recommend the book, 'Fighter: The True Story of the Battle of Britain' by Len Deighton, its nearly a day by day account of the battle. What was happening in the air, on the ground and behind the scenes, its a great read.

 

[Airframes]

I can provide you with a list of all the JG's that participated in the BoB,their bases and transfers Jan, if you would like it, or like it posted.
II/JG77 had supported the invasion of Norway and Denmark in April 1940, and maintained a defensive role in that region until December, when they moved to north west France. They did not take an active part in the BoB.
No. 74 Sqn., RAF, took part in the first phase of the Battle, being based at Rochford, Kent between June 6 and June 25, when they moved to Hornchurch. The Squadron was withdrawn for rest, moving to Wittering, Cambs, on 14 August, then to Kirton-in-Lindsey on 21 August, and Coltishall on 9 September, moving south again in mid-October.

 

[Njaco]

This will give you an idea where the Jagdgeschwaders were located.

Jagdwaffe by Eric Mombeek.

 

[520516MA]

oh my god , If haven't rader at that time .It was hard to say who will win the battle .

 

[Lucky13]

Great stuff Chris!

 

[Njaco]

and that is just the fighter units. Don't forget the Kampfgeschwaders, Lehrgeschwaders and Zerstroergeschwaders!

 

[Lucky13]

...and Stukas...!

Edit:

Lehrgeschwader 2's IV.(St),
Sturzkampfgeschwader 1's III. Gruppe,
Sturzkampfgeschwader 2's III. Gruppe,
Sturzkampfgeschwader 51,
Sturzkampfgeschwader 3's I.

 

[tango35]

With the new Eduard Me 109 releases E-1,E-3,E-4, the classic re-releases from Revell (Spitfire ) and the new Ju 88 it will be an interestin GB.

greets

Thomas

ps: The Ju 88 is in my stash and the new Eduard is ordered