Best British fighter to counter MiG-17

[Admiral Beez]

In October 1952 the MiG-17 entered service. This was two years before the Hawker Hunter and the Supermarine Swift, and three years before the Hawker Sea Hawk. What does Britain have that can counter the MiG-17 in 1952-53?

 

[GrauGeist]

The dh Venom would be one.

 

[Thos9]

The Canadair Sabre F Mk 4 which entered RAF service in May 1953 was barely competitive (if that) with the MiG-17. It was replaced in RAF service by the Hawker Hunter starting in June 1955, by when the supersonic MiG-19 had already entered Soviet service three months earlier.

Although afaik the Venom never met the Mig-17 in combat it would have been completely outclassed as a fighter by the MiG.

 

[GrauGeist]

The Mig-17F, which entered production in 1953, was the basis of the legendary "Fresco".
The earlier MiG-17s (which fall into the OP's timeslot) would have not been as much of an adversary.

 

[GrauGeist]

Yay - duplicate post...

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Mig-17F, which entered production in 1953, was the basis of the legendary "Fresco".
The earlier MiG-17s (which fall into the OP's timeslot) would have not been as much of an adversary.

If we go with 1953's Fresco, how does the Hunter compare? That seems the only RAF fighter that stands a chance.

 

[Elvis]

I just did a quick look-see through a Wiki page listing all UK military aircraft and the only thing I can find in that era is the DeHavilland Vampire, but it would be a woeful opponent for the Mig.
Thrust-to-weight ratio for the Vamp is .27.
For the Mig its .63
About the only thing, in its class, that I can think of to even come close is a plane that actually never existed....Canadair Sabre Mk.VI with an Orenda 17 engine.
Thrust-to-weight ratio would be about .58

 

[Glider]

Basically there was no real competitor until the Hawker Hunter which in entry to service timescales was about 18 months behind. I think its worth noting that the USA didn't have a match for the Mig 17 until the F100 arrived on the scene.
It should also be noted that early versions of all three aircraft had significant issues. The Mig 17 was very basic and needed better electronics, The Hunter had serious range issues and the engine would flame out if all four 30mm guns were fired at the same time. The F100 had serious handling issues.

 

[GrauGeist]

The MiG-17 "F" model introduced in 1953 was the start of a long line of potent Frescoes.
The "F" model had several improvements, including an afterburner.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I think its worth noting that the USA didn't have a match for the Mig 17 until the F100 arrived on the scene.

Totally disagree my friend. From the F-86F on, the MiG-17 could have been countered, especially when the Sabre was armed with early Sidewinders. The MiG-17 would have the edge in acceleration and maneuverability, the Saber was just as fast. The F-100 had the speed edge but the MiG-17 was more maneuverable.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Taiwan in Time: 'MiG busters' in action - Taipei Times

 

[Husky]

Taiwan in Time: 'MiG busters' in action - Taipei Times

Nifty article. How do you come by this kinda stuff?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Nifty article. How do you come by this kinda stuff?

Thanks - "Google is your Friend."

Actually I was aware of these skirmishes and I did see that piece before.

 

[Elvis]

Totally disagree my friend. From the F-86F on, the MiG-17 could have been countered, especially when the Sabre was armed with early Sidewinders. The MiG-17 would have the edge in acceleration and maneuverability, the Saber was just as fast. The F-100 had the speed edge but the MiG-17 was more maneuverable.

It should also be noted that the F-100 was never designed for dog fighting, while agility was one of the MiG's strong points.
All of the Century Fighters were merely missile platforms, or at least, that was the point.
Until the advent of the F-16 (possible exception to the F-5), the F-86 was the last plane in the US inventory that was designed around any prospect of dog fighting.
...btw, good post, FLYBOYJ. Always a pleasure to hear from you on any subject at this forum. -b

Elvis

 

[GrauGeist]

The Navy's A-4 Skyhawk was a fairly agile aircraft and even scored a MiG-17 during the Vietnam War with a Zuni.

 

[Glider]

Totally disagree my friend. From the F-86F on, the MiG-17 could have been countered, especially when the Sabre was armed with early Sidewinders. The MiG-17 would have the edge in acceleration and maneuverability, the Saber was just as fast. The F-100 had the speed edge but the MiG-17 was more maneuverable.

Being slightly cautious here as you are on home ground and I am not, plus of course there is a good chance that you have worked on these at some time.

I do not doubt that having the early sidewinder would have been a game changer as it gave all sorts of tactical advantages. However the Mig 17F I always thought had a much better power to weight ratio, plus it had the afterburning engine albeit an inefficient type, which could help in an emergency, giving it an extra boost advantage in a tight corner. That said, to an F86 carrying a sidewinder its just giving it a nice large lock on opportunity.
I always believed that both were borderline supersonic and the headline max speed would have been broadly similar

 

[SaparotRob]

The Navy's A-4 Skyhawk was a fairly agile aircraft and even scored a MiG-17 during the Vietnam War with a Zuni.

I have been a fan of the Skyhawk forever. A-4's operated out of Floyd Bennett Naval Air Station (NASNY) when I was a kid. Loved watching them go by. The F-86, the A-4 and the Vulcan, my jet faves.
The B-52 doesn't count as it is a sacred aviation icon and is above any comparison with mere mortal machines.

 

[Elvis]

I have been a fan of the Skyhawk forever. A-4's operated out of Floyd Bennett Naval Air Station (NASNY) when I was a kid. Loved watching them go by. The F-86, the A-4 and the Vulcan, my jet faves.
The B-52 doesn't count as it is a sacred aviation icon and is above any comparison with mere mortal machines.

Not to skew the thread, but how far is (was?) Floyd Bennett from Mitchell Field?

 

[SaparotRob]

Not to skew the thread, but how far is (was?) Floyd Bennett from Mitchell Field?

About 20 miles, give or take a mile.
New York answer: about an hour, hour and a half (traffic).

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I always believed that both were borderline supersonic and the headline max speed would have been broadly similar

Both aircraft can go supersonic, the Saber handles it better, the MiG-17 pitches up on its lateral axis as it's hitting the wall