Best Cold War Tank

[futuredogfight]

What do you think was the best Cold War tank? Note* M1 Abrams, Leopard etc. will not be included.

 

[Shortround6]

Trick question?

The AMX-40 is a 1980s tank but never mass produced.

If you take that one out you have two contenders left. The Centurion Mk. 5-13 and the M-60.

 

[tomo pauk]

What time frame should the poll be about?

 

[Tante Ju]

Its pretty obvious to me - T-54/55. It was head and shoulders above anything else when it was introduced.

 

[futuredogfight]

M60 and Centurion were much better! I'd say from Korea to the early 80s. I apologize I had to get to bed. I didn't know the AMX-40 was not massed produced

 

[tomo pauk]

... I'd say from Korea to the early 80s. ...

Chieftain for me then.

 

[Tante Ju]

Armor protection.

Chieftain (1956)

Centurion:

M-48

T-54

 

[tomo pauk]

Cool stuff, Tante Ju.

Here is what one of the best 100mm AP ammo was capable for, a copy of (Israely?) M111 105mm AP. From the discussion at tank-net, by member bojan:

Rick, 100mm Yugo M98 APFSDS (basicly M111 in a 100mm sabot) does 150mm@60deg@2km. 80% success required.

(note, we measures armor from a horisontal, hence 30deg on the site).

The regular East Bloc ammo would be notably weaker.

The T-62 standing a good chance, on the other hand?

 

[Juha]

Thanks a lot for the armour schemes, Tante Ju!
but Brits made very good anti-armour guns and penetrators, so the APDS ammo of 20pdr was still capable to penetrate T-54 from frontal arc beyond 1000m and Israelis who used both Centurions and T-54s/-55s were very fond of Centurion but had rather low oppinion on T-54/-55.

Juha

 

[tomo pauk]

IS-3:

There is another good candidate, namely T-64.
It was riddled with problems when introduced (mid 1960s) that were cured in after some years. It belongs into a 'second' branch of Soviet post war tanks, later evolving into T-80; those were never exported prior 1990, T-64 never at all? The 'mainstream' branch started with T-44, evolving into T-54/55. T-55 was 'father' of T-62, 'grandfather' of T-72 (regarded as not as good as T-64B!) and 'grand grandfather' of T-90.

 

[futuredogfight]

How do I fix the poll?

 

[Shortround6]

There is a lot more to a good tank than just armor and gun power.

Chieftain scores points for the electric cooking pot inside the vehicle (tea or soup while closed up)

Rate of fire, accuracy of fire control, ammo storage are important as well as mobility, not just speed but flotation and hill climbing ability (sometimes a low, walking pace gear is as important as high power to weight).

Chieftains did have a lot of problems with the engine (in part copied from Junkers aircraft diesel of WW II)

 

[Matt308]

How do I fix the poll?

What do you want fixed? PM me.

 

[davebender]

I agree. About 100,000 vehicles produced. Many were modernized during 1980s and still remain in service.

Not bad for an inexpensive 36 ton tank that originally entered production during 1954.

 

[Shortround6]

The T-54 entered production in late 40s and it shows what you get when you go cheap. A great tank for keeping the local civilians from getting uppity. A poor return on investment if you actually have to fight better tanks as, like the Sherman, you often need 2-4 T-54/55s to equal a Centurion or M-48/60, except it didn't have the mechanical reliability of the Sherman.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not saying it is the best, but where is the Leopard 1 in the poll?

 

[tomo pauk]

I agree. About 100,000 vehicles produced. Many were modernized during 1980s and still remain in service.

Not bad for an inexpensive 36 ton tank that originally entered production during 1954.

Many (all?) countries that bought the T-54/55 were ill able to purchase even the T-72, let alone something western, in quantity. Even East Germany was fielding maybe 5 old tanks per each T-72, in late 1980s. It was not a bad tank, but from 1980s it was an example of 'we don't have money, so lets at least keep the number of tanks high - a tank is a tank'.

The T-54 entered production in late 40s and it shows what you get when you go cheap. A great tank for keeping the local civilians from getting uppity. A poor return on investment if you actually have to fight better tanks as, like the Sherman, you often need 2-4 T-54/55s to equal a Centurion or M-48/60, except it didn't have the mechanical reliability of the Sherman.

Not saying it was an exceptional tank, but why would we say it's mechanical reliability was not up to task?

 

[Shortround6]

Not saying it was an exceptional tank, but why would we say it's mechanical reliability was not up to task?

Perhaps some sources are wrong but most say it used clutch and brake steering, the same as a Bren carrier. It may work on light vehicles but by the time you get to 36 tons? The main clutch was also on the "simple" side. Some estimates were that 30-40% of the T-54/55s would be out of service with blown clutches by day 4 of an attempted Soviet invasion of Western Europe. Many tanks have have poor reliability but to loose that many from just 2 parts( main clutch or steering clutches)???

It's one reason they Soviets built so many, To make sure they had enough runners at the end of the week

 

[Airframes]

As the 'Cold War' didn't 'officially' end until 1990, there are a number of tanks missing from the poll. My vote would go to the one generally regarded as 'the best', the Chieftain, introduced in the late 1960s - and the 'Chobham' armour is still 'Classified'.

 

[futuredogfight]

I apologize, I left out some tanks because I knew everyone would choose those.