Best ETO fighter from 1939-1942

Best ETO Fighter from 1939-1942?

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The Fw 190A was the best fighter of this time period. The Bf 109F and Spitfire V were equals, with some edge to the Bf 109F - in my opinion. It was not until the Spitfire IX came into mass production that the RAF gained a fighter that could tangle with the best of them, and frankly the Spitfire IX maintained its record until 1945.

I know this is an old thread, but hey - no need to let it die.
 
I voted Fw 190A but with reservations.

The designs evolved amazingly between all combatants - If you start at 1939 and put an anchor that starts there and continues through 1942 I have to look hard at the Spit IX or the P-38F or Me 109E/F and ask 'what are judging on'.

Of all the combatants that existed in 1942 the most 'incremental' evolution occurred in Mustang, Corsair and Focke Wulf.

Provocative question requiring objective evealuation criteria. I think if I had been a fighter pilot in constant struggle for control of my airspace in defencse in 1942 it is between Fw 190, Spit IX and Me 109F

If I want to go deep and have great capability at medium to medium high altitude I go P-38F

If I sound confused you have me pegged.
 
The FW-190A for sure, but the Bf-109F-4 is a close second. Both could reach 670 km/h at alt, which is pretty impressive for the time period.

As for going long and deep, well how long deep are we talking here? The Fw-190A Bf-109F could both carry drop tanks, so range was pretty decent by then.
 
the lancaster kicks ass said:
regardless of what escort was flown it was the change in german tactics from bombing airfeilds to cities that lost them the battle, amoung other things obviously........
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Definitely; the Luftwaffe almost had the RAF beaten into submission by bombing and strafing their airfields, when Goring made the fateful decision to start bombing the cities instead, thereby giving the RAF enough breathing room to regroup rearm. I understand it was a very near thing, as the RAF almost ran out of planes pilots, when the Luftwaffe shifted tactics. If the Luftwaffe had continued their assault on British airpower (including their radar stations), they probably would've won the Battle.
 
Glider said:
How on earth do you chose between the 190 and the Spit IX?
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Glider, for me the Spit IX was in my opinion a better (slightly) pure fighter than the 190 (and the Mustang) but I felt the 190A was more versatile, as a fighter bomber for example, and could have easily been converted to fleet version had the LW had a carrier fleet.
 
I can't see why the Spit IX was a better pure fighter than the Fw-190A, except if we're talking late 44 to 45 where the +25lbs boosted version appeared, but AFAIK this was only used for chasing V-1's and had a very short service life.

However we need to consider the Bf-109 here as-well, which considering its climb rate, speed and agility is a serious contender and atleast the equal of the Spitfire as a pure fighter, if not slightly better. The Bf-109 G-2 and Spitfire IX were very equal on all aspects of flight really.
 

Soren, do you have any numbers on how far and long a mission could be for these two fighters with the drop tanks?
 
Not currently at hand since I'm not at home but, IIRC the Fw-190 has a range of 1200 - 1300 km with a single 300 L drop tank. The Fw-190 could carry up to three drop tanks however, so max range was probably ~2100 -2200 km.
 

I don't really have an answer Soren. Particularly since we are limited to 1942 for end of comparisons.

I consider all three to be excellent 'fighter-fighters'. While I like the Spit IX better than the Fw 190A2 or A3 and the Me 109F it isn't based on compelling case for any of them - but I like the Fw 190 versatility better, particularly in 1942.

Further, I was thinking Spit IX with -66 Merlin when strictly speaking that didn't happen until 43. If comparison was between Fw 190 through A5 and Spit IX with -66 Merlin I would faver the Spit slightly because of speed and climb advantages, particularly at 20K+ altitude.

If the -61 Merlin, I like the Me 109G2 and Fw A2-5 better. The latter because Roll rate shoud trump turn rate. In every other case they are too close to call. In every case, if they both see each other with no energy advantage, the winner is best pilot or luckiest, not the airplane. I feel this applies when you bring the Mustang into the equation also.

But ask them to perform as fighter bombers and the Fw 190 gets my nod

I think as a 'pilot's airplane' they are all in equal esteem - depending on who flew what.


Regards,

Bill
 

Firstly the 190 vs the Spit IX.
They are so close with differing strengths. The 190 was more flexible and capable of carrying a decent GA load. The Spit was better at high altitude the 190 at low altitude. The Spit had a better turn but the 190 had a better roll rate so that equalled out in most cases.
To be honest I wouldn't disagree if people chose one or the other as the best, at the end of the day the tactical position and pilot would make the difference. I am sure that the pilots of both didn't feel short changed and were more than happy with their mount.

Spit IX vs 109G (first versions of both as this is 1942)
I feel the Spit had the advantage. It certainly had the advantage at height which is no small thing. It also had the better manoeuverability. The 109 had a better dive but the advantage was limited as the 109 was red lined at a similar level to the Spit. The initial acceleration was greater in a 109 which is a decent advantage but not overwhelming.
The Spit was more flexible. For instance, it could be upgunned with a minimal impact on performance, when the 109 was upgunned the impact was significant.
I am certainly not saying it was an easy target, or that the difference is huge, far from it ,but the question is which is the best.
 

Good point on armament - I had forgotten that differentiation, particularly between 190G2 and 4x20mm equipped Spit.
 
The Focke Wulf Fw-190 wins for me. That wide track undercarriage and big canopy make it a more modern and better thought out design. Didn't swing on take-off either.

Spitfire was also excellent but the 190 had higher perfromance in this time frame.

The 109 was F model about now and the Fredrich was good. But I've never liked the 109 so it gets third.

But I believe the Finns and their Buffalos got the best kill ratio...so you can't ignore results!!!

The Heinkel He-100 was the best fighter in this time frame so it should have won...but it never got the nod so Fw-190 it is.
 
Glider, I agree with about everything except the below.

I feel the Spit had the advantage. It certainly had the advantage at height which is no small thing. It also had the better manoeuverability.
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The Bf-109 Spitfire were very equal in terms of maneuverability, the Bf-109G-2 holding a slight edge in sustained turn rate, climb rate roll rate, as well as speed at at low to medium altitude. The Spitfire IX held a slight advantage in instantanous turn rate and speed at high altitude. All in all they were very similar, th pilot being the deciding factor.
 

I would give the 109 the advantage in climb and roll rate but the Spitfire the advantage in sustained turn rate but as we both agree it is close.

What isn't in doubt, is that all three f these were ahead of anything else in service during 1942. The P38 being the only real contender
 
I don't really see the P-38 as a contender, atleast not as a pure fighter. Had it been a good deal faster than it was I would look at it otherwise.
 
Given the years indicated, there are several other fighters from other countries that should have been listed, at least perhaps mentioned. Especially when "early war" ETO is the criterion. I would have included aircraft from countries like:

France: D.520, MS. 406, MB 152
Holland: Fokker DXXI, Fokker G.1
Poland: PZL P.24
Italy: Fiat G.50, Macchi MC 200 202, Caproni-Reggiane Re 2001
Russia: MiG-1 3, LaGG-3, Yak-1
Yugoslavia: Rogozarski IK-3
Romania: IAR 80

How about a poll for the "non-US-UK-Ger aircraft"?
 
Soren said:
I don't really see the P-38 as a contender, atleast not as a pure fighter. Had it been a good deal faster than it was I would look at it otherwise.
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I tend to agree Soren but the P-38G, out into operations 1942, was no slouch although some 30kts slower than the J and L, but still 345mph at 5,000 and 400+ mph at 25,000 feet with normal internal fuel load.

The upgrade to the 1325hp 1710-51/55's gave it excellent acceleration, speed and climb so it was close to both the 109G2 and Fw190A-3 in many respects. Combined with its range with just internal fuel and load carrying capability I looked at it pretty hard in comparing with all of them in late 1942.

This was the ship that Steinhoff had a lot of respect for...

But I don't get really excited about the 38 until the L series - then it was formidable across the board at all altitudes.
 


Although I like the Fokker D.XXI, it's is not a real contender. It was pretty outdated at the time, fixed gear, not very well armed (4 x 7.92 MG's). They did well considering the circumstances, but I feel the dutch pilots deserved much more credit for that than the plane itself. The G.I is another matter. I really believe it was much better than it's main adversary, the Bf.110C. But it wasn't a fighter pure sang. It was probably the first real multi-role fighter, being build as a scoutplane, fighterbomber and interceptor altogether. Dutch pilots said it could turn with a D.XXI which is quite a feat for such a heavy plane as the D.XXI was aready a very manouverable plane itself. So it didn't have the problem that the BF110 had. Too bad it never had the chance to prove itself.
 
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