Best Fighter III

[kiwimac]

We can argue all we like but German Aircraft design was ahead of that of the allies in 1939 and was still ahead in 1945. That the Germans did not have the raw materials in 1945 to build them is beside the point.

As far as the Airbus is concerned... hmmm, RG had perhaps better rethink his comment. It is not subsidisation that destroys competitiveness, it is rather the concept that public good can only come from private industry.

Kiwimac

 

[Erich]

Was ist die Geschwindigkeit der Schwärzung =S=


Didn't I just say in an earlier post that the combats with Dora's was infrequent ? yes it happened but not as many incidents truthfully as reported by US P-51 pilots. Prime sources are the losses of II./JG 301 for one...........

I'll make a listing of units that flew the bird after work on the day or morrow or....

Aber bitte mit Sahne !

v/r

E ♪

 

[Erich]

ok here we go.

JG 2
JG 26

Dora's in full.

Stab and one staffel of IV./JG 3, Ost front
Stab./JG 4, Ost front

Parts of JG 6 although equipped mostly with the A-8 and A-9.

4-5 Doras in protective staffel of JV 44

3 staffeln of II./JG 301 which did have contact with US fighter units.

that is it gents..........

E ~

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeah RG_Lunatic with what you just said proves to me how ignorant and assinine you are. I think you are part of some US Hate group, but you know what I will not lower myself to your level of ignorance by saying that I hope Boeing goes under because Airbus has sold more aircraft than Boeing for the last 3 years. And hey RG thats on paper so you better believe it. LOL Anyways I am not going to subject myself to his ignorancy anymore.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Kiwi, why not sticky this thread and move the other 2 Best Fighter topics to the archive thread?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

what do you mean by sticky?

 

[cheddar cheese]

It always stays at the top of the forum - look at the first 6 threads here, they are all sticky.

The idea for the forums was that once a thread reached 20 pages it would be moved to the Archive forum and a new one would be started in the same place...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Ah I see. I think he stopped it because of the way the convo is going.

 

[Erich]

ok what's going on here guys ?

I have a bit of info to add but want to make sure that we all can give our honest opinions on Dora vs P-51 combats, etc................

rename the thread maybe ? not a bad idea but it's the moderating teams call of course.

II./JG 301 received the Dora sometime in frame of 4 December 1944. trials and high cover missions they lost their first Dora's on 31 December 1944. 7th staffel with red numbers had an overabundance of Dora a/c and supplied these to 5th and 8th staffel pilots although 8th staffel enver received the unit during the latter part of the war, only 5-7th staffeln. Four Dora's were lost on the 31st December datein aerial combat with P-51's.
In January of 45 II./JG 301 moved to Welzow with the Geschwader Stab. II. gruppe continued to fly Höhenjäger missions agasint high flying P-51's.
On the 14th of January II. gruppe lost 5 Doras in combat with P-51's.
On the 20th of January JG 301 as a whole is now called to perfom on two fronts, west and Ost, flying protective and fighter bomber missions against the Soviets.
8th of February 1 Dora lost.
9th of February 1 Dora lost
14th of February 2 Doras lost

2nd of March 1945 a huge air battle against US bombers and P-51's, all four gruppen of JG 301 involved. Back later

wanted to back up a bit. In the fall of 1944 the first gruppe equipped with the Dora 9 was III./JG 54 which was given the position of protecting W. Nowotny's Me 262 unit. After the disaster of Nowotny and his unit and also of III./Jg 54 terrible protection of the jets the III. gruppe was absorbed by JG 26.

Erich ~ hope this is all of interest ..........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Do you know about any actions between the Dora and the Spitfire?

 

[Erich]

2nd of March, 7 Doras are lost in action with 352nd fg P-51's. IV. gruppe with Bf 109G-10's ceased to exist and JG 301 took a terrible pounding, so much so that the overall diary almost dissolves

In April of 45 there maybe 5 losses although individual dates are not confirmed............there is total de-moralization of the unit and it is on constant move from field to field...........ground personell and even pilots are hunting for gas the unit trying to stave off attacks from the east by the Soviets. JG 301 is performing dive bomber attacks along with JG 300 on Soviet held positions / crossroads and bridges.

 

[Erich]

I believe that almost all actions of JG 26 were against the RAF. JG 2 haven't a clue. JG 6 met up with P-51's on several missions. the more I am delving into actions the more I am proving myself wrong, ah what the heck, it is interesting ............ 8)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yes it is I am going to try and find some info on RAF encounters with the Dora, if there are any.

 

[Erich]

yep here is a profile that I posted up earlier. 7./JG 301 actually by Claes Sundin. 5th had white #'s, 6th had red #'s and 7th had yellow #'s. 8th staffel had blue #'s but received the A-8 and A-9's and no Dora's.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Tank made it plain that he regarded the Jumo-powered FW-190D-9 as an "interim solution", leading Luftwaffe pilots to believe that they were going to get an indifferent and clumsy lashup. Once they got their hands on the machine, they found out that the "Dora-Nine", as they called it, was a superb aircraft. It was faster, climbed more rapidly, and handled better than an Anton, and almost certainly the best piston fighter to be fielded in numbers by the Luftwaffe. The Dora-Nine proved to be a nasty handful for American P-51Ds and late-mark RAF Spitfires. Tank was just being fussy.

The Dora-Nine was produced in good numbers, but unfortunately for the Luftwaffe, conditions were becoming increasingly difficult at this late date, with fuel and pilots running desperately short. Many of the FW-190D-9s built never saw combat, and in any case they were too few to have any influence on the course of the war. Those that did see action were often used as "top cover" for airfields operating the Messerschmitt Me-262 jet fighter, whose poor acceleration made it highly vulnerable during landings.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avfw190.html

 

[kiwimac]

DerAdler is right.

I will sticky this if when folk improve the quality of the conversation. A GOOD start has been made here lets keep it up.

[Admin hat off]

Kiwimac

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

to be honest i don't really believe some of the german "X" planes were capable of what the germans said they were, don't get me wrong i know allot of their designs were good but they had bombers they said could hit 600mph and many of them wouldn't have worked, take the Go-229, good stats but post war was proved to be to unstable to be any use.........

 

[Erich]

just so it is understood by all...........

in Adlers copy and paste on the Dora, only III./JG 54 provided top cover in the fall months of 1944 for Me 262 jet equipped Kommando Nowotny. they did a terrible job of doing so as the jets got hit on take off ( 361st fg, Urband Drew) and on landing plus Walter Nowotny himself was shot down in action.

E ~

 

[Udet]

Erich, hi:

What about the victories of the Doras?

 

[Erich]

uh I think I knew that was coming Udet............going to be hard as I do not have them for JG 2 and only for IV./JG 26 which is going to be tough hunting through their diary. the JG 301 logook for claims is not at all complete it is more of a losses book along with sepcial emphasis on one particular pilot, Willi Reschke. Stab/JG 4's is possible and so is IV.Stab/JG 3

give me some time next week and I'll see what I can do. Another problem is JG 301 is listed by pilot but not necessarily by the gruppe/staffel, sometimes yes and sometimes no

just punched up: JG 4, and they shot down 3 Soviet a/c

IV.Stab/JG 3 shot down 6 Soviet a/c by Oskar Romm. there should be another 3-4 by other pilots but do not see them listed in the diary.

bis bald

Erich ~