Best fixed-gear monoplane fighter?

[Oreo]

Well, the only book I seem to have on hand with the D.21 seems to indicate 286 mph at 16,732 ft for the Mercury 8 version, and a service ceiling of 36,000 ft, which is higher than pilots could normally go without getting the bends. Most impressive, that, and yet it must be remembered that most P-39's had service ceiling of 34-37,000 feet, and yet we've been told their flight characteristics were no good over 16,000 ft, so service ceiling is not really a super good indication of capabilities.

 

[kool kitty89]

Fokker DXXI

That site has figures that seem to match the "normal" ones, but the Finnish figures seem a bit lower. (possibly the usualy figures are caculated and not test data)

Though those Finnish figures make the Gladiator compare favorably...


But I've seen high figures for some of the others too. (292 mph for the Ki-27)

 

[Oreo]

Fokker DXXI

But I've seen high figures for some of the others too. (292 mph for the Ki-27)

I've seen those figures before, too. Don't know if it was a different version, a different test, or just a bunch of hooey. Who knows?

 

[Marcel]

According to my figures the D.XXI was rated at 460 km/h maximum level speed, don't know at which altitude, though. Cruise speed should have been around 430 km/h according to these figures. These are LVA figures, but I'm not sure how accurate they are.

 

[Oreo]

According to my figures the D.XXI was rated at 460 km/h maximum level speed, don't know at which altitude, though. Cruise speed should have been around 430 km/h according to these figures. These are LVA figures, but I'm not sure how accurate they are.

287 mph, then, which would about make it the fastest of our options, except maybe some Hawk 75's.

 

[marshall]

By the way, does anyone know how the PZL did for maneuverability versus the others? We know it's slower, it did have 4-gun armament available, and with the high gull wing vision must have been excellent. It managed to hold its own against the German bombers, but was a full 100 mph slower than Bf 109E.

Maneuverability of PZL P.11 was exeptional, it was the biggest advantage of the plane together with high service ceiling and good diving abilities, of course for a fixed-gear machine. G limit was 16g so pilot was limited only by his imagination and health. During 1939 campaing less then half of P.11s was shot down by enemy planes because the 11 were hard to shot down because of very good maneuverability and often 109 pilots were just flying away when they couldn't shot down the 11. Even once Stanislaw Skalski in P.11 was alone fighting with 3 109s and he survived. More than a half of the P.11s was destroyed on the ground. Despite all of this one of the best fighters of early 30's was completely outdated in 1939.


Now my vote. I voted on other because I want to bring another plane into discussion. The PZL P.24, final incarnation of original Pulawski's design. Never used by Polish Air Force but used by other countries. Maneuverability slighlty worse than P.11 because of increased weight but still very good and very good visibility.
Empty weight: 1330kg
Max takeoff weight: 2000kg
Powerplant: 970 hp (723 kW) Gnome-Rhône 14N.07 14-cylinder two-row radial engine
Speed: 430km/h at 4500m
Service ceiling: 10500m
Climb: 5m 40s to 5000m
Range: 700km
Armament: two 20mm cannons (Oerlikon FF) plus two 7.9mm MGs or four 7.9mm MGs
also the plane could take four 12.5kg bombs or two 50kg bombs


Plus beautiful looks (prototype on the photo).

 

[kool kitty89]

That's a good point, something to consider, with an enclosed cockpit as well.


The Miles M.20 was probably the best made, but it came a bit later (first flew in mid 1940), and didn't enter production.

 

[Oreo]

Now my vote. I voted on other because I want to bring another plane into discussion. The PZL P.24, final incarnation of original Pulawski's design. Never used by Polish Air Force but used by other countries. Maneuverability slighlty worse than P.11 because of increased weight but still very good and very good visibility.

Stink! I knew I'd forget one!

 

[Oreo]

The Miles M.20 was probably the best made, but it came a bit later (first flew in mid 1940), and didn't enter production.

I believe the M20 never saw squadron service, whereas the others did.

 

[kool kitty89]

Well, since it didn't enter production, that's kind of a given, I just thought it deserved a mention. (like the FDB-1 in the late biplane fighter thread)

 

[comiso90]

Points for style..

The "Cutiest" airplane ever in circus colors.
Chino 2006 Airshow Highlights
.

 

[seesul]

Avia B-35/135

General characteristics

* Crew: one pilot
* Length: 8.50 m (27 ft 11 in)
* Wingspan: 10.85 m (35 ft 7 in)
* Height: 2.60 m (8 ft 6 in)
* Wing area: 17.00 m² (183 ft²)
* Empty weight: 1,690 kg (3,726 lb)
* Gross weight: 2,200 kg (4,850 lb)
* Powerplant: 1 × Hispano-Suiza 12Ycrs, 640 kW (860 hp)

Performance

* Maximum speed: 495 km/h (308 mph)
* Range: 500 km (311 miles)
* Rate of climb: 13.0 m/s (2,560 ft/min)

 

[kool kitty89]

Wouldn't that fall in the same category as the Miles M.20, as it didn't enter service? (not to mention production -same for the M.20-)

 

[Oreo]

My criteria was squadron service, like still in service by late 30's. Even so I forgot the P.24. And possibly others.

 

[Oreo]

obviously we could talk about the Fokker Eindecker. . . . lol

 

[Oreo]

Points for style..

The "Cutiest" airplane ever in circus colors.
Chino 2006 Airshow Highlights
.

nice picture.

 

[Marcel]

P.11 and P.24 were decent planes, but I think the high wing hampered the pilot's view, a bad thing for a fighter.

 

[Oreo]

P.11 and P.24 were decent planes, but I think the high wing hampered the pilot's view, a bad thing for a fighter.

Actually I'm not sure that's accurate. Look at the PZL cockpit's position on a good 3-view and ask yourself what could you see from in there, then compare that to a low-wing plane. The PZL pilot could see much more downward than a low-wing fighter, he could see above him, to the sides, and straight ahead, and pretty good to the rear. Possibly the best vision of any WWII fighter. Maybe. Take another look.

 

[Marcel]

Actually I'm not sure that's accurate. Look at the PZL cockpit's position on a good 3-view and ask yourself what could you see from in there, then compare that to a low-wing plane. The PZL pilot could see much more downward than a low-wing fighter, he could see above him, to the sides, and straight ahead, and pretty good to the rear. Possibly the best vision of any WWII fighter. Maybe. Take another look.

I did:

Look at the wing. If the pilot looks left, he'll see a wing. He can only look foreward in a straight line, slightly left and right and he's looking at the wing. Foreward and down his view is hampered by the wing struds. Yeah, he can look straight down and backwards, but that's not the point for a fighter, is it?
View was probably better than that of a biplane, but there's a reason why later fighter designs were all low wing.

 

[Thorlifter]

I'll go with the Ki-27.