Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
KraziKanuK said:P-61B-15 42-39606 'Li'l Abner' 415th NFS St Dizier France Mar 45
P-61B-15 42-39672 'Little Audrey' 422nd NFS Etain France late 44
Erich said the 414th NF S not the 414th NF G
Erich said:funny your last line is exactly what I did to Gilly. so Gilly what I hear you say is that you thought the P-61 did a fair job but was not the answer to the night interception problem over the Reich. he agreed. What did he think of the Ju 88G-6 and the possible threat of the Me 262 single engine nf. He did not enough info on the Ju 88 to tell as he did not face them but he did on the Fw 190F and G as well as the slow Stuka. He was quite impressed with the Ju 87D's slowness and ease to which it could bank and be lost in the ground haze where the P-61 (B) could not follow.
As to comment to the Me 262 he always hoped he would never have one in the area............think you know what the outcome would have been.
the start of the B varinat of the P-61 came in the heavy fighting in the Ardenne as the A's were being run into the ground some A's flown by three different crews on nights over Belgium.
Jack Slayton combats were with Bf 110G's in which he shot down 1 and agasint Ju 52's and an almost kill against a KG 200 Ju 290 agent dropping but he missed his chance on a night fighters moon...........interesting story.
He also battled or had visuals on Ju 188's which were numerous on the dark nights over the Reich.
Bud Anderson also from the 425th did night ground attack in his B but did not do well with the Widow on night intruder ops. he was shot down by German 2cm ground weapons and severly injured.
Bob Bolinder who was with the 414th flew both A's and B's scoring a couple of German bombers. He never flew agaisnt Ju 88G-6's as he was moved out of the 422nd line-up as additional personell and moved back to the Med with his unit. the man would have taken anything on he told me in the Widow because "that is what we had"
vet memories in this case are not as faulty as you might think. In my regard I find the Widow the better night ground attack a/c compared to the Ju 88G-6. True the Widow was equipped with AI right at the start the Ju 88G-6 not seeing Berlin sets till spring of 45. would have to compare the quality of the a/c crews but this would not be overally fair as the Germans had the most experience.
MP-Willow said:Erich and RG:
Thanks for the P-61 talk. This plane came late and I think could have preformed well if given the same oprotuities as the others.
But I would like to say that even in the PTO the P-61 never used the 4x0.50s in the turret as a turret mount. It was found the airflow over the guns would be very difficult to controll so it would be locked down. The guner could then be removed and replaced with more fuel or ammo. I think if the problum would have been fixed that would have helped to make the P-61Cs even better. But they were to late in getting out.
Over all I think the USAAC crews were lacking in operational hours that the RAF and Germans had.
Erich said:RG according to vets I have interviewed they did have problems in 1945 with ground clutter. the 422nd and the 425th esepcially s you said did a dual purpose. One of hunting German bombers/fighters the other to clobber German ground positions. the AI was used for both and it is reported to me several times that when pursueing Ju 87D's and even Ju 188's if the a/c dove in a hard flick of the wing bank to the ground the German craft was lost.....this was the only thing said the the Widow crew returned to base to re-arm, fuel and possibly change the crew.
the Ju 88G-6 with Berlin AI was not jammed neither the coder within the craft. True I will agree the earlier forms of SN-d sets were nothing like the US or RAF AI sets during 1944.
Gemhorse said:For myself, I can't see why they even bought the P-61 into the ETO, as the British were doing the 'Night Shift', and the Mosquito was handling the Nightfighter situation really well.....Our crews were well-trained and integrated to this role, the aircraft were excellent for the role, the Mk.VIII radar was by then a good purposeful system, there was no extra need of an additional Allied NF....It wasn't necessarily how fast they could be, or as mentioned how many guns, the Mossies 4x 20mm's were just right, and having such a manoevurable aircraft that could SLOW to the potential victim's speed was the necessity...to stalk, identify, then terminate...
Speed was important, yes, the Ju-88's in particular could hare-off if warned of impending attack and could prove to be quite elusive, but when Bf-262's entered the fray, the Mossies could in turn be elusive...I haven't the figures but most Mossies shot down were more likely Bomber/Pathfinder variants without rearward-warning radar....There's no-way a P-61 compares favourably to the Mosquito as a NF.....they were of more use in the PTO as 'Bed-check Charlie' chasers.....
Erich said:not to be too off topic but yes we will cover the Mossie ops in our book versus the Me 262.
Yes the Berlin 240A1 was used successfully on missions. It is hardly covered as it is used so terribly late in the war. Tested by crews in NJG 1 that did have the Ju 88G-6 on hand namely 9./NJG 1. NJG 4 especially and some craft fitted in NJG 5 with I. gruppe.