Bf 109 F-4 "Red or Black 4" II/JG51 pilot: Uffz. Kurt Knappe - Soviet Union - 1942

[SEP]

Good morning,

I am a new member of the Forum, even if I have been reading it during the last 20 years.

I am planning to build a model of Bf 109 F-4 "Red or Black 4" of II/JG51 (possibly 5 staffel) pilot: Uffz. Kurt Knappe - Soviet Union - summer of 1942.

The profile and decals of this aircraft that are included in Kagero's "Aircraft Aces" Nr. 1 depict a "Red 4".

However, Osprey "Aircraft of the Aces" Nr.76 includes a profile of the same aircraft but with a "Black 4".

I wonder whether anybody could kindly shed some light on whether this was indeed a red or black 4 and, also, if somebody has a picture of this aircraft as i couldn't find any.

Many thanks !

 

[Wurger]

Hello,

Welcome to the site.

To answer your question ... the red coulour was used for the 2th and 5th Staffel earlier. It is in accordance with the RLM rules for earlry markings of the planes for each staffel of a gruppe. However all known pics of the 5./JG51 aircraft in Russia indicate the colour black for the marking. So that's the reason the Kagero and the Osprey books show it differently. Personally I would follow the black.

Here are examples ...

the 2./JG51 ... the "10" seems to be of the red while the "5" and "12" indicate the black digits.

and the 5./JG51 ... the "6" seems to be of the red while the "5" is of the black undoubtedly.

 

[SEP]

Hello,

Welcome to the site.

To answer your question ... the red coulour was used for the 2th and 5th Staffel earlier. It is in accordance with the RLM rules for earlry markings of the planes for each staffel of a gruppe. However all known pics of the 5./JG51 aircraft in Russia indicate the colour black for the marking. So that's the reason the Kagero and the Osprey books show it differently. Personally I would follow the black.

Here are examples ...

the 2./JG51 ... the "10" seems to be of the red while the "5" and "12" indicate the black digits.
View attachment 838914
View attachment 838916

and the 5./JG51 ... the "6" seems to be of the red while the "5" is of the black undoubtedly.
View attachment 838917
View attachment 838915

Hello Wurger and thank you very much for your reply !

As Kagero and Osprey have probably based their profiles on a picture of that particular aircraft, I'd very interested in having a look at it (if it has been published on a book, I'd buy it ... or may be I already have it in my collection...).

 

[Wurger]

Actually I haven't seen a such image. So I have some doubt about using the pic for the profiles of the both publishers. The base seems to be the shots of the other kites of the 5./JG51 squadron at that time rather. Here is the "6" in Russia winter 1941/1942. No doubt it is black.

the pic source: the net.

 

[SEP]

Actually I haven't seen a such image. So I have some doubt about using the pic for the profiles of the both publishers. The base seems to be the shots of the other kites of the 5./JG51 squadron at that time rather. Here is the "6" in Russia winter 1941/1942. No doubt it is black.

View attachment 838924
the pic source: the net.

Roger that. Thank you very much indeed !

 

[le_steph40]

Welcome,

"Black 4" flown by Kurt Knappe from 5./JG51 during Summer 1942 it's an F-2 model (Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934-1945 Teil 9/II p306)

 

[SEP]

Welcome,

"Black 4" flown by Kurt Knappe from 5./JG51 during Summer 1942 it's an F-2 model (Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934-1945 Teil 9/II p306)

Thank you very much !

I might need to change subject then, as I already have an F-4 kit...