Bf 109 in Austria!!!

Discussion in 'Warbird Displays' started by v2, Dec 8, 2006.

  1. v2

    v2 Well-Known Member

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    During the last 20 years Ing. Kurt Steiner had been restoring a Bf 109 to complete condition. It represents the aircraft flown by Unteroffizier Herbert Maxis, who was killed by U.S. troops after he had to make a forced landing during the operation "Bodenplatte" January 1945.
    On 1 January 1945, during operation “Bodenplatte”, the German Luftwaffe launched a surprising blow against Allied ground targets. Fighter Group JG 53 had orders to attack the airport at Frescaty near Metz. Before reaching the target NCO Herbert Maxis (born 1920) from Friedrichshütte in Upper Silesia of Group IV got in trouble and emergency landed near Oberfelsberg. He has been MIA since then.
    Responsible for this crash was American soldier Flenory Griggs of 455th AAA AW (M) Bn., 'A' Battery which was stationed at Düren to protect American field artillery. He hit Maxis’ Messerschmitt plane with machine gun fire and forced him down only 200 yards from his position. Hints given by members of this American unit indicate that Maxis was shot when he wanted to leave his plane by approaching artillery men who mistakenly believed he was going to pull a pistol though he actually just wanted to press his hand against a body wound.

    If you ever come near Vienna, you could visit the Aviaticum in Wiener Neustadt (60km from Vienna at the airodrome Wiener Neustadt Ost).

    Pics: ( text in German; Adler help!!! )
    Luftfahrtforum Österreich :: Thema anzeigen - Me 109 im Aviaticum Wr. Neustadt
     

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  2. R-2800

    R-2800 Member

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    wow interesting story!
     
  3. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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  4. ChrisMAg2

    ChrisMAg2 Member

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    I don't realy like it. I admit the labor is good, the same is for the intention. But the overall result is atleast ambigious:
    We see the original wings of Uffz. Herbert Maxis "white 13" Me 109 G-14 AS. But then there is this G-6 fuselage, and the overall camo à la 1943. On them are Max Herbert's 1945 marking of "white 13" and III./ JG 53 including the RVB.
    Explanation for this contradiction: in WNF only G-6 were built, although it is also recorded that (a small number of) standard G-14 were also produced.
    My two cents...
     
  5. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Yes but with so few 109s remaining, everyone one rebuilt (as long as it is original parts) is something that the people can see and the legend will not die.
     
  6. ChrisMAg2

    ChrisMAg2 Member

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    I agree with that, but that also degrades the "109" to themepark event, where details are not really important. These small details deserve a better appreciation to achieve a more authentic impression, not just a near to an original impression. ...IMO.
     
  7. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I too agree with what you are saying, but in this case I still think it is okay.
     
  8. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    in the field you would think that various marks swapped parts to repair damage and wear and tear if the peice fit I dont think it would matter which version of aircraft it was.
     
  9. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Very true, PB. If it was serviceable and fit, I don't think anyone would quibble that it came from a Mk III going into a Mk XIV. When you need a part, you need a part.
     
  10. ChrisMAg2

    ChrisMAg2 Member

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    But the fitting and interchangeability is not the point (here).
    A Me 109 G-14/AS is something different then a G-6. Yes, the fuselage was the same, but already the engine was different. The tailsection and canopy are/ could be differnt too. Most important: here you see 1945 markings with RVB on a 1943 camo. That is a contradiction. The original "white 13" had noticebely different camo, that is even recorded. Then you apply a G-14/AS WNr on a G-6 airframe with G-14 wings. You have a hybird that never existed in this way.
     
  11. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    You think that it is the only warbird that has errors? The important thing is that people get to see a 109. Most people won't know the difference, but they get too see a historic airplane. Yes, there will be people who do know the difference, but I would prefer that people at least get to see one with errors than to not see it at all.
     
  12. ChrisMAg2

    ChrisMAg2 Member

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    True! But again this is not even a historic plane, but only (in the best, if ever!) the image of ww2 fighter. Only the wings are original. They are not even colored according to the original. As I said earlier like that it is "a theme park artifact".
    With today's knowledge, even a theme park should be more then just "roughly near" the original. There are enough bad examples over the world and (IMO) we don't need one more. Quality and historical correctness should be a point you can expect and demand, even and especially if you are not the (Me 109) buff. There are also losts of very good rebuilds (Fw 190 A-8 in Hannover-Laatzen >a rebuild from six! wrecks<, Me 110 F-2 in Berlin etc.) and all took the nessecary research time to give it a correct appearance. Why not here? I cannot agree on your last sentence. It should be: what ever it is, it should be correct or atleast as close as it can be researched to the original. The labor to make it correct is the same as just the idea of a plane. As always it's a matter of good research and planning that makes a good job. And, sorry again!, but with you're last sentence you do not appreciate all the succesful works done over last past years (Fw 190 D-13, yellow 10/ He 219 A-2/ Fw 190 A-8, red 6/ rom. Ju 88 D-1/ Me 109 G-4 / Me 109 G-10, black 10...).
     
  13. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    I'll take the repaired 109 anyday without qualms but I guess I'm just blessed
     

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  14. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Perhaps for statically displayed aircraft, you can be a bit pickier, as parts can be fabricated for non-flying aircraft to give it a more authentic appearance. I certainly can appreciate other works, I volunteer with the CAF, which has the largest collection of flying historic aircraft. We have an F4F Martlet locally that has a historically incorrect paint job, but it does fly, and a lot of people get to see it because of that. Our chapter owns a Zero, a real one. It is supposed to be an A6M3 Model 22, but has parts and features that are not correct to a mod 22. It is Nakajima built with a paint scheme that is in Mitsubishi style. I don't think it's a big deal, because people are seeing a real Zero fly. If they had to make it historically correct, it wouldn't be flying..at all. Flying displayed aircraft get seen by a much larger group of people than static displays in a museum. And the point is to get as many people to see them as possible.

    The cool thing about an aircraft with errors is that people that become knowledgable can then recognize what is wrong. An aircraft that is displayed with errors can stil generate an interest in the history and the aircraft. Otherwise, they are just reading words on a page or placard. Could you imagine an "aviation museum" with no actual aircraft at all?
     
  15. ChrisMAg2

    ChrisMAg2 Member

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    Evan,
    we are not really that far apart, aren't we? I agree with you, that where thrill and entertainment dominates the purpose, the smallest details are not really that important (a Germany, 1940 painted "Buchon" -i.e. for the B.o.B.-movie- would be impossible - as another example). An "educational" museum should -on the other hand- see to it to be as close as possible to be correct in all details with it's static or not flyable displays.
     
  16. ndicki

    ndicki Member

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    Just let me digress a bit.

    I often go to La Ferté Alais, which is France's leading warbirds show - not that that means much, if Stephen Grey decides not to fly over from the UK!

    Anyway, the other year, we were treated to a 1940, Germany invades France tableau, where we saw three post-war Dassault Flamand bomber trainers in French training command colours; these were presented as He111s :shock: . Then, later, there was a French Indochina tableau (early 1950s), where they presented a Morane 500 spotter plane. For those who don't know, that's a Fiesler Storch built in France. That might have been OK, except that this one was in full Luftwaffe Eastern Front markings... :lol: :| :evil: What a joke. And the general public had to pay some $30 or so for the priviledge. All I can say is I'm glad I got in on an invite...
     
  17. Watanbe

    Watanbe Member

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    Man these things are rare. If everyone restored their warbirds to exact standard there may not be anything for people to admire and look at. To us trainspotters of WW2 we may think its terrible that its not completely exact to specification.

    To the majority it doesnt matter. They get to see a Me 109 and gain an appreciation for WW2 aircraft.
     
  18. Heinz

    Heinz Active Member

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    That E model in Canada is a Battle of Britain veteran yea?

    As for as historical accuracy goes, we need to remember these planes are pushing 70 odd almost now ( sure don;t look it, wish humans aged like old aircraft:D) and therefore its up its up and its a great thing.

    However if it was fluro pink then yes we have a problem lol!
     
  19. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    How many times does an old aircraft, Bf 109, Fw 190, P-47 or a P-51 get painted in colours that it never carried? And they only do this because they want a more famous aircraft. Isn't that in one way to erase the person that actually flew this particular machine from history, just because he isn't a big enough Ace? Didn't he fight, struggle and suffer just as much as he who gets the colours on this machine? Isn't that right or wrong too?
     
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