Bf 109G-6 and G-6A/S at 1.42

[drgondog]

Does anybody have good charts of airspeed/altitude and rate of climb/altitude for both type 109G-6 at 1.42 ata. Thanks in advance and give me your eal name so that I can credit it properly in the new book

Regards,

Bill Marshall

 

[Laurelix]

Does anybody have good charts of airspeed/altitude and rate of climb/altitude for both type 109G-6 at 1.42 ata. Thanks in advance and give me your eal name so that I can credit it properly in the new book

Regards,

Bill Marshall

BF109G-6 however operated at 1.7 ata, it was BF109G-2 that really operated at 1.42 ata

This is probably what youre looking for:
Kurfürst - Bf 109G-6 / DB 605 A

 

[tomo pauk]

BF109G-6 however operated at 1.7 ata, it was BF109G-2 that really operated at 1.42 ata
...

Care to elaborate?

 

[Laurelix]

Care to elaborate?

BF-109G-6 also used DB-605AM later on.

 

[tomo pauk]

BF-109G-6 also used DB-605AM later on.

It probably did.
However, in 1943, the engine was DB 605A, and for the best part of that year it was restricted to 2600 rpm and 1.30 ata, same as other Bf 109Gs, including the G-2.

 

[Laurelix]

It probably did.
However, in 1943, the engine was DB 605A, and for the best part of that year it was restricted to 2600 rpm and 1.30 ata, same as other Bf 109Gs, including the G-2.

from what i can see its performance is pretty much nearly the same as G-2 with 1.42 ata

 

[CORSNING]

My bad, the graph was only 1.3 ata. I deleted,...but I'm still looking.

 

[Laurelix]

Really guys? I already posted BF-109G-6 at 1.42 ata
Kurfürst - Bf 109G-6 / DB 605 A

Just over 640km/h at 6500m

 

[drgondog]

BF109G-6 however operated at 1.7 ata, it was BF109G-2 that really operated at 1.42 ata

This is probably what youre looking for:
Kurfürst - Bf 109G-6 / DB 605 A

No, this table report lacks several key elements. First, it is not a clean Bf 109. Unknown on ETC 501 and it was flown with 2xMG 151 pods.

Last - no GW. So the climb figures if presented are not accompanied by good drag numbers nor a gross weight to evaluate the performance to 'standard' clean at 1.42 ata.

Did I mention, it was a top speed vs altitude and not rate of climb?

 

[CORSNING]

No, this table report lacks several key elements. First, it is not a clean Bf 109. Unknown on ETC 501 and it was flown with 2xMG 151 pods.

Bill, what indication is given on this graph suggesting wing pods other than its low speed given?

 

[CORSNING]

It probably did.
However, in 1943, the engine was DB 605A, and for the best part of that year it was restricted to 2600 rpm and 1.30 ata, same as other Bf 109Gs, including the G-2.

Good point Tomo. The limited research I have done on the Bf 109 has uncovered that there
were problems with the DB 605A that limited its maximum boost on occasion. Emergency
power of 1.42 ata / 2,800 rpm was banned in 1942 in June, July, October and again in
June 1943, October 1943 and once again in February 1944. In the time during each ban
emergency power fell to: 1.3 ata / 2,600 rpm producing 1310 PS (1,292 hp)/S.L. and
1,250 PS (1,233 hp) / 5,800 m (19,029 ft.).
This leads me to ask the question: " During times that the engine was allowed to be
boosted to 1.42 ata was climb boost still limited to 1.3 ata.? That would help to explain
why a climb graph at 1.42 ata is so hard to find...?"

 

[tomo pauk]

...
This leads me to ask the question: " During times that the engine was allowed to be
boosted to 1.42 ata was climb boost still limited to 1.3 ata.? That would help to explain
why a climb graph at 1.42 ata is so hard to find...?"

In the time of interest, the name of different power settings was often just a name.
The full name of 'climb power' setting was actually 'climb and combat power' (Steig- und Kampfleistung) - and people were still climbing on 'max continuous power' (Hoechstzullaesige Dauerleistung), and did the combat (including short-time high-speed dash and climbs) on 'emergency power' ('Notleistung').

 

[CORSNING]

My point (question) was, when notleistung was listed on a chart/graph and 1.42 ata
was the allowed boosting [for speed], might the given acknowledged climb
boost have been an accepted 1.3 ata?

 

[drgondog]

armament specified under Kurfurst watermark.

 

[CORSNING]

Bill,
The armament I see listed is the following;
Motor mounted: 1 x MG 151 / 20 mm or 1 x MG MK 108 / 30 mm.
Rumpf (hull) mounted: 2 x MG 131 / 13 mm.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me109g6-combat-emergency.jpg

, Jeff

 

[Laurelix]

If G-5 is identical to G-6 except pressurised cockpit...

this source can be used for BF-109G-6/AS

DB-605/AS has
1275PS at Sea Level (1.3 ata)
1150PS at 7800m (1.3ata)
-
1435PS at Sea Level (1.42 ata)
1200PS at 8000m (1.42 ata)

Reference: Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 605 AS

In terms of Max Speed the source only tells us at 1.3 ata

507km/h at Sea Level
654km/h at 8300m

The Source: Kurfürst - Leistungen Me 109G mit DB 605 AS

When it comes to 1.42 ata I would expect
~ 527km/h at Sea Level
~ 670km/h at 8500m

 

[Laurelix]

Just for the memes...

Maximum Power Output according to Kurfurst - Your resource on Messerschmitt Bf 109 performance
DB-605A - Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 605 A
1475PS at Sea Level
1355PS at 5700m
-
DB-605AS - Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 605 AS
1435PS at Sea Level
1200PS at 8000m
-
DB-605AM - Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 605 AM
1800PS at Sea Level
1700PS at 4000m
-
DB-605ASM - Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 605 ASM
1800PS at Sea Level
1500PS at 6400m
-
DB-605DB (ASB) - Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 605 DB/DC
1850PS at Sea Level
1600PS at 6000m
-
DB-605DC (ASC) - Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 605 DB/DC
2000PS at Sea Level
1800PS at 4900m
-
DB-605L - Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 605 L
1700PS at Sea Level
1350PS at 9600m

 

[mad_max]

This maybe of interest.

 

[Laurelix]

BF-109G-6 / Early
Loaded Weight: 3350kg
Wing Area: 16.20m2
Engine: DB-605A (1475 PS)
-
Max Speed: (1.42 ata)
532km/h at Sea Level (520 with gun pods)
654km/h at 6500m (642 with gun pods)
-
Rate of Climb: (1.3 ata / 1.42 ata)
Time to 6000m: 6:30 / 5:32
-
Sustained Turn Rate:
20 Seconds (1.42 ata)
21 Seconds (1.3 ata)
-
Armament:
1x 30mm Mk-108
2x 13mm MG-131

 

[mad_max]

Climbing at 1.42 ata you will over heat your motor rather quickly. Short periods won't be a problem, but sustained climbs at the maximum power at the listed climb speed of any build of aircraft won't be fast enough for the proper airflow for cooling. Even the P-51 which had the best cooling system of any aircraft built in WW2 would have issues with this at low speed. Even at climb powers the Pilots Handbook states if your temperature isn't in the normal operating range, then increase your climb speed, which would decrease your climb rate.

Games love to model these ridiculous climb rates and power, but I find most Fight Model designers haven't a clue about real life flying. Not saying I'm an expert, but having a Father as a pilot in WW2, Korea and private aircraft he did teach me a few things.