Bf109 - why no bubble canopy ?

[vinnye]

Given the length of time that the Bf109 was in service and development, why did they not go to a bubble type canopy and lower rear fuselage?
I have seen interviews where pilots often said that the visibility out of that cockpit was not good. If this is correct, why did the LW not make changes to rectify this?

 

[norab]

I don't think the Germans had the technology to mold a true bubble canopy until too late in the war to interrupt production

 

[stona]

I don't think the Germans had the technology to mold a true bubble canopy until too late in the war to interrupt production

Fw 190 ?

Steve

 

[Kryten]

FW190 canopy was made in two halves I believe, with a joint along the top running front to back?

 

[stona]

FW190 canopy was made in two halves I believe, with a joint along the top running front to back?

The early flat sided versions, which I suppose makes them clear vision (no frames) rather than bubbles, had a hinge running back from the front edge about 1/3 the length. This was to allow the canopy to flex as it was opened and closed. It needed some movement as the width at the front changed from 66cm to about 53 cm.
Later "blown" canopies were made in two halves for the same reason. These were actually easier to produce and improved pilot vision further.
Cheers
Steve

 

[bobbysocks]

i dont know how much you want to ( or even can ) lower the turtledeck..or area behind the canopy. the 109 has one of the slimmest fuses of ww2 ac. i fear a malcolm hood canopy would do the same as the bumps on the later 6 series. give you more drag as a trade off for a little better vision.

 

[tyrodtom]

I'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong. But I can remember reading the Malcolm hood actually increased the airspeed slightly on the Mustang Is when the RAF installed them.

The airstream is already being moved outward by the windscreen returning it to parallel with the gentle curves of the Malcolm hood might cause less turbulence than the sudden change the airflow has to undergo when going from the windscreen to the flat side canopy, on the stock P-51B canopy.
British pilots claimed the Malcolm hood gave them better overall vision than the bubble canopy on the P-51D.

 

[Crimea_River]

Not a true bubble but the Me 309 was planning on a low back fuselage with a framed 360 degree view canopy.

 

[Airframes]

The later, Czech-built Avia '109' had what was probably the nearest to a 'bubble' canopy. To achieve a full 'bubble', for example similar to a Typhoon or P-51D, I think would require some major re-design of the fuselage, which was built in two halves. Lowering the rear fuselage of the Spitfire and Mustang was 'relatively' simple, in engineering terms, compared to the construction of the '109.

 

[The Basket]

The radial engined 109 had a better canopy. But the fuselage looks a lot fatter and wider.

Might be a trick of the eye to fit the radial.

 

[bobbysocks]

i think to get the full effect of a bubble canopy you would have to raise the height of the pilots seat in a standard 109.

 

[davebender]

Heinkel He 112 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He 112B had a completely redesigned and cut-down rear fuselage, a new vertical stabilizer and rudder, and a completely enclosed cockpit with a bubble-style canopy. The canopy was somewhat more complex than later bubble designs; instead of having two pieces with the majority sliding to the rear, the He 112B's canopy was in three pieces and the middle slid back and over a fixed rear section. Even with the additional framing, the He 112 still had excellent visibility for its day. Armament was also standardized on the B model with two 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns in the sides of the cowling with 500 rpg, and two 20 mm MG FF cannons in the wings with 60 rpg. For aiming, the cockpit included the then-modern Revi 3B reflector gunsight.

The first B series airframe to be completed was V7 in October 1936

Semantics of "true" vs "untrue" bubble canopy don't matter. Germany obviously had ability to make a canopy with excellent all around vision during 1936.

 

[Airframes]

The German clock industry were also moulding 'Perspex' domes in the 1930s, so presumably the technology and knowledge were there.

 

[GregP]

How about the all-round vision canopy on this Bf 109 with a radial engine?

If they could do it for a prototype like this then why couldn't they do something similar for the production line? And the windscreen has been changed for the better, too. So here's a "fix" that was tried but never incorporated. Unbelievable.

Not a true "bubble" but better than the stock Bf 109 canopy.

Sorry to post this again so soon after last time, but it seems appropriate for the thread title.

 

[davebender]

Focke Wulf and Heinkel fighter aircraft both had good canopy during late 1930s. I'm surprised RLM didn't insist Me-109F have something comparable when introduced during late 1940.

 

[Tante Ju]

British pilots claimed the Malcolm hood gave them better overall vision than the bubble canopy on the P-51D.

I would like to have some of the stuff they were smoking...

 

[GregP]

Good one Tante Ju!

 

[tyrodtom]

I would like to have some of the stuff they were smoking...

The Malcolm hood bulged out 7 inches on each side, just like a lot of observation aircraft. That meant they could lean out and look behind and down, they may not have been able to look straight behind as well as a bubble canopy ( even with a bubble you can't see thru the armor plate) but with the Malcolm hood they could see down better, and around the nose better .

There's more than one way to check your 6, it's called S turning.

 

[GregP]

Yes, you are right, but the bubble canopy DID give better all-round vision.

 

[vinnye]

Thanks for posting that prototype up Greg, I had not caught it previously.
Can not understand why that was not used more widely?