BP Finally Stops Oil Flowing

[BombTaxi]

With all respect Hop, this isn't a small spill on the Welsh coast. The area affected has a massive fisheries industry which is closed down until further notice. People are losing their livings already. And as I mentioned above, methane rising from the well has killed unknown numbers of fish even where there is no oil on the surface. Add to this the fact that part of the effected area was still trying to recover from Hurricane Katrina, and that the local economy is already somewhat depressed due to global trading conditions, and you have a massive human tragedy which goes far beyond 800 dead sea birds.

 

[Glider]

I don't believe that anyone is trying to underestimate the scale of the incident. However its important not to overstate the impact either. I know its easy to say but its important that people focus on the damage not the emotion. Clearly this is a major inident but Hop is right about the type of oil, the depth of the spill and the temperature which should help. Its also true to say that the fishing ban for all the right reasons, covers an area considerably larger than the area of contamination.

The pollution in the area is already pretty poor, Every year, a massive oxygen-starved region known as the "dead zone" develops off the coast of Louisiana in which nothing can live. Last month, the US government's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) said it expected this year's "zone" to be between 6,500 and 7,800 square miles, the 10th largest ever.
No one knows yet how the oil spill may affect it, many believe that it will make it worse, some it may even help in a unexpected way. By suspending fishing for 12 months it might, just might, give the fish a chance to recover their numbers. Thats what happened in the Exon Valdis spillage and history might repeat itself.

The blunt truth is that no one knows. Everyone needs to concentrate on what happens, not what might happen, as might could be too optamistic or too exagerated.

 

[Hop]

With all respect Hop, this isn't a small spill on the Welsh coast.

No, it's not. It's about 5 times the size, but it's out to sea, in warmer weather, which means the oil will evaporate much quicker.

Being out to sea, they can deploy resources against it that they can't do as easily when it's right on the coast. For example, they've been burning oil on the surface of the Gulf, about 250,000 barrels worth. They've removed about 800,000 barrels of "oily liquid" with surface skimmers.

They've also deployed nearly 600 miles of boom.

The area affected has a massive fisheries industry which is closed down until further notice.

Some fisheries are closed, others aren't. According to the NOAA 35% are closed, 65% open (as of last Tuesday). It's worth remembering that not only is BP paying massive compensation, it has chartered thousands of fishing boats to help with the clean up.

I think tourism is going to cause a much bigger impact. Sadly the media have given people the impression the gulf is one long oil slick from Texas to Florida.

And as I mentioned above, methane rising from the well has killed unknown numbers of fish even where there is no oil on the surface.

There's no evidence of that. Until there is, I'd file it with the huge underwater "oil plumes" that the NOAA haven't been able to find emanating from the BP spill.

As Glider posted, there is always oxygen depletion in the Gulf in the summer, caused largely by fertiliser run off from farms. Tests show it's no worse this year than any other.

This is from yesterday's Guardian:

When BP's chief executive, Tony Hayward, said in May that the Gulf oil spill was a drop in the ocean – "tiny in relation to the total water volume", he was pilloried by Barack Obama and the US press, but he was technically correct.

In the 85 days of the leak, the worst oil disaster in history, nearly 184m gallons of crude oil is estimated to have gushed into the Gulf of Mexico, the ninth largest body of water in the world. That is a lot, but no more than Americans burn every five hours and 10 minutes. Indeed, in the 24 hours since BP temporarily capped the Deepwater blowout, Americans have used over 840m gallons in their cars, planes, kitchens and factories which will have soiled the air, land and sea.

The US can now look back on the Deepwater spill and count itself ecologically lucky, in many ways. It was not just a mile deep, allowing much of the oil to be diffused in the ocean, but it was 50 miles offshore in a warm sea. Many other oil spills have been far more injurious to wildlife and the marine and terrestrial environments, because oil breaks down much more slowly in cool seas. The 11m gallons spilt from the Exxon Valdez in the Alaskan waters in 1989 still threaten the whole ecosystem. That spill killed at least 36,000 sea birds. So far, Friends of the Earth US reported today, only 1,387 birds, 444 sea turtles, and 53 mammals have been found dead in the Gulf.

Nonetheless, the damage yet to be revealed will be far worse than a few dead birds and tar balls along 500 miles of coast. Dolphins, whale sharks and sea turtles numbers will almost certainly have been hit hard, and some populations may not recover for years. Fish and shrimp-breeding habitats will have been hit. Deep coral reefs, which can take centuries to grow, may also have been affected.

Furthermore, the ecological damage done in the last three months is made far more serious because it comes on top of years of man-made degradation of the Gulf environment. Many of the wetlands and estuaries that take the brunt of any oil spilt had already been seriously degraded by man's interference with river flows. These could now disappear even faster if the oil has got into the roots of the grasses.

The oil that gushed also added to natural oil and gas leaks into Gulf waters. These occur all the time from the sea bed, and the US Department of Energy estimates that there may be 5,000 active "seeps" in the northern Gulf alone. One researcher calculated in 2000 that 500,000 barrels of oil – 84m gallons – naturally gets into the Gulf each year, but is never cleaned up.

The Gulf is also heavily polluted by nitrogen and phosphorus from fertilisers and livestock waste washed down the vast Mississippi river from farms and industry. Every year, a massive oxygen-starved region known as the "dead zone" develops off the coast of Louisiana in which nothing can live. Last month, the US government's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) said it expected this year's "zone" to be between 6,500 and 7,800 square miles, the 10th largest ever. No one knows yet how the oil spill may affect it. Some marine scientists think the oil may make it larger, but others say it could help to limit its size – a scenario that could, absurdly, see BP claiming to be clearing up pollution in the Gulf.

Fish will have suffered, but paradoxically the US government's decision to ban commercial fishing from 88,000 sq miles of the Gulf during the clean-up in order to safeguard human health could actually help regenerate depleted fish stocks. The Gulf is one of the most overfished seas in the world, with many species in serious decline and some fisheries near collapse.

Closing off nearly a third of the waters is likely to have given many species a chance to increase numbers. The oil spill will have killed some fish, but vastly more are caught by industrial fishing operations every year. Stocks of fish such as red snapper and bluefin tuna, which spawn in the Gulf, could benefit greatly.

The media has exaggerated the effects of this oil spill.

Edit: the wildlife death figures they quote are of all animals found dead, not just those killed by oil.

 

[lesofprimus]

The Gulf of Mexico is not a Sea and does not behave as one... The number of boats employed by BP is nothing compared to the numbers that are sitting around wishing they would be employed by BP.... The loss of the local fishing has been devestating, SO FAR.... U think its gonna get better???

STOP ****ING DOWNPLAYING THIS MASSIVE ****ING OIL SPILL THATS IN MY ****IN BACKYARD HOP, AND STOP DEFENDING THOSE COCKSUCKING MOTHER****ING EXECUTIVES AT THAT WORTHLESS PIECE OF **** COMPANY WHO COULD GIVE TO SHITS ABOUT SOME STUPID ****ING AMERICANS!!!

I suggest u shut the **** up and find another thread to kick sand around in pal...

 

[vikingBerserker]

I have not read in any post where anybody was defending BP, Hop is only stating for the most part facts and data as reported on the NOAA site.

Deepwater Horizon / BP Oil Spill Response | Recent and Historical Incidents | Emergency Response | NOAA's National Ocean Service Office of Response and Restoration

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Hop is quoting from sources far from the source - Les lives right in the backyard of this disaster. I suggest for those who are thousands of miles from the area to listen to those who live in the area.

His own words...

"The media has exaggerated the effects of this oil spill."

 

[vikingBerserker]

I have to disagree about the NOAA being 1,000 miles away as the NOAA is also very much on-site.

NOAA ship Delaware II is collecting tunas, swordfish and sharks, to gather data about the conditions these highly migratory species are experiencing in waters around the Gulf of Mexico spill site.

NOAA ships Pisces and Oregon II, are in the midst of surveys of reef fish, bottom-dwelling fish, and shrimp in the eastern and western Gulf of Mexico to sample for seafood and water quality and species abundance as part of the oil spill response.

NOAA ship, the Gordon Gunter, is surveying marine mammals through August 5. Researchers are taking biopsy and water samples for analysis, and placing satellite tags on some animals to learn more about how they move between oiled and unoiled waters. The ship is also placing underwater listening devices on the ocean floor in the survey area. These will be left for up to four months, recording the vocalizations of marine mammals so researchers can better understand which species are present.

NOAA ship Thomas Jefferson, and a previous mission by NOAA ship Gordon Gunter from May 27 through June 4 hosted teams from NOAA, universities, marine science institutions, and other federal agencies collected water samples and employed advanced methods for detecting submerged oil while gathering oceanographic data in the area.

NOAA survey vessel, Nancy Foster, is on a mission to better understand the loop current and how it may change over time, as well as to sample planktonic animals potentially affected by the spill.

The charter ship Beau Rivage is working for NOAA in the closed fishing zone in the eastern Gulf, using bottom long line gear to catch fish for seafood safety samples.

NOAA Mississippi lab vessel Gandy is conducting a vertical line survey in the eastern Gulf, collecting seafood safety samples.

NOAA Mississippi vessel Caretta is doing trawling and plankton work in the oiled area off Mississippi.

In addition, they also have folks on the ground and are using aircraft in the area.

In regards to Hop posting his opinion about "The media has exaggerated the effects of this oil spill." , the media does have a history of doing just that.

 

[lesofprimus]

In this case, the media is actually downplaying the damage being caused, and will be caused in the near future... Normally a drive down the coast of Mississippi there are people/tourists on the beach, everywhere, with boats and waverunners all over the place, too many boats to count...

Know how many u see now???

ZERO.....

And that aint because of the media, its because of BP and they're complete disregard for safety and the enviornment....

U have any idea how much BP is gonna pay me and my family for the time and memories lost that we could be spending on/in/near the beaches on the Gulf of Mexico???

ZERO....

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I have to disagree about the NOAA being 1,000 miles away as the NOAA is also very much on-site.

NOAA ship Delaware II is collecting tunas, swordfish and sharks, to gather data about the conditions these highly migratory species are experiencing in waters around the Gulf of Mexico spill site.

NOAA ships Pisces and Oregon II, are in the midst of surveys of reef fish, bottom-dwelling fish, and shrimp in the eastern and western Gulf of Mexico to sample for seafood and water quality and species abundance as part of the oil spill response.

NOAA ship, the Gordon Gunter, is surveying marine mammals through August 5. Researchers are taking biopsy and water samples for analysis, and placing satellite tags on some animals to learn more about how they move between oiled and unoiled waters. The ship is also placing underwater listening devices on the ocean floor in the survey area. These will be left for up to four months, recording the vocalizations of marine mammals so researchers can better understand which species are present.

NOAA ship Thomas Jefferson, and a previous mission by NOAA ship Gordon Gunter from May 27 through June 4 hosted teams from NOAA, universities, marine science institutions, and other federal agencies collected water samples and employed advanced methods for detecting submerged oil while gathering oceanographic data in the area.

NOAA survey vessel, Nancy Foster, is on a mission to better understand the loop current and how it may change over time, as well as to sample planktonic animals potentially affected by the spill.

The charter ship Beau Rivage is working for NOAA in the closed fishing zone in the eastern Gulf, using bottom long line gear to catch fish for seafood safety samples.

NOAA Mississippi lab vessel Gandy is conducting a vertical line survey in the eastern Gulf, collecting seafood safety samples.

NOAA Mississippi vessel Caretta is doing trawling and plankton work in the oiled area off Mississippi.

In addition, they also have folks on the ground and are using aircraft in the area.

And does this show the end result of this spill and how it affected the local community and people who have lost their livelihoods over this mess? NO!!!

In regards to Hop posting his opinion about "The media has exaggerated the effects of this oil spill." , the media does have a history of doing just that.

And do you think this is the case now??? By the numbers shown this spill is going to make the Exxon Valdez look like a minor spill. I know people as far north as central Alabama who are effected by this by the lack of tourist dollars spent by those going to gulf waters. BP not only is responsible for one of the worst environmental accidents in history but they have committed one of the worse acts of criminal negligence in history as well. I'm usually pretty pro-oil and pro-drill anywhere, but these ****tards need to be taught a big lesson.

 

[BombTaxi]

Latest reports suggest the 'skimming' ship deployed to the are is not going to work, putting a significant dent in the cleanup operation

I totally agree that BP need to be taught a major lesson. This doen't happen enough. Several years ago, the Buncefield fuel depot in Hemel Hempstead, about half a mile from where I work, exploded. I have spoken to many colleagues who say that if it had happened at any time other than 6am Sunday morning, the carnage would have been massive. As it was, many businesses were critically damaged. Today, fines were announced for the companies involved, and they collectively total... £5.35 million. That's barely a slap on the wrist for the oil giants, and it is typical of the lax regulatory approach taken. These guys need a wake up call - realistic fines for the businesses and custodial sentences for those who had the sign-off on safety processes. If they want to play in the big leagues, they need to learn to deal with the consequences of their screw-ups.

 

[vikingBerserker]

And does this show the end result of this spill and how it affected the local community and people who have lost their livelihoods over this mess? NO!!!

Not to the fullest extent but that's not their mission. Irregardless this was not what was being discussed. No doubt it has greatly effected a number of people there and all the facts and data don't mater to the guy who just lost his job over this.

And do you think this is the case now??? By the numbers shown this spill is going to make the Exxon Valdez look like a minor spill. I know people as far north as central Alabama who are effected by this by the lack of tourist dollars spent by those going to gulf waters.

Traditionally Companies and Governments under reports and the Media over reports (Bad news makes for great headlines). Is it possible they are under reporting? Yes, but I would be shocked.

The instances I know they have over reporting are:
This is will be the worst oil spill in history (it's only #3 and 1/3rd of the worst )The Worst Major Oil Spills in History,
It was reported oil would reach Myrtle Beach SC in June (no where near)
Gulf seafood is not safe to eat
Worst Ecological disaster ever.
BP would cease to exist as a company - that one is still open.

IMO the reason why tourism has taken such a hit is due to the exaggerated reporting by the media.

BP not only is responsible for one of the worst environmental accidents in history but they have committed one of the worse acts of criminal negligence in history as well.

No argument there, personally I think they should shoot both the BP Rep who told them to replace the mud with seawater in the well and the Rig Master that agreed to do it. Add on the idiot who forgot to change the battery in the kill switch.

 

[vikingBerserker]

These guys need a wake up call - realistic fines for the businesses and custodial sentences for those who had the sign-off on safety processes. If they want to play in the big leagues, they need to learn to deal with the consequences of their screw-ups.

I think you are dead on. Start sending CEO's and other Executives to jail.

 

[BombTaxi]

It's already done in UK law. There is a crime of 'corporate manslaughter' if the negligence of a business leads directly to the deaths of employees, and line management are jailed for their part. It has been applied in the case an accident where four railway workers were killed by a runaway wagon. A line manager and senior manager were jailed as a result. Details here:

Tebay rail accident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Taking several people out of a business and jailing them has a marked effect on the behaviour of their colleagues, as you might imagine. With 11 workers being killed in the initial explosion, I think several people should go away for a pretty long time...

 

[vikingBerserker]

NICE!!!!

Wooden chocks for a rail car??????? Now that was a dumb*ss decision.

 

[buffnut453]

One of the key issues here is setting up that robust regulatory framework that Viking is talking about. The Govt agency responsible for ensuring standards was at best asleep at the wheel, at worst in cahoots with big oil. I'm sure BP has learned its lesson from this disaster but what about the other oil companies? Requiring oil companies to contribute to a safety fund that provides immediate-response disaster relief capabilities would be a start, closely followed by more rigorous inspection criteria and procedures and some form of disaster response practice, probably on an annual basis. Of course all of that costs money which, like it or not, will be passed on to the consumer resulting in higher fuel costs...and that's where consumers need to recognize that higher per-gallon costs for extracting this stuff are inevitable. Ideally, I'd also like to see greater emphasis on setting challenging fuel efficiency targets for vehicles so we can reduce our dependency on oil.

 

[BombTaxi]

Problem is, that the oil companies are massively powerful lobbyists. Although BP denies any involvement in the release of the Lockerbie bomber, they have admitted to being involved in discussions with the Foreign Office regarding other Prisoner Transfer Arrangements. BP were mainly lobbying for the rapid repatriation of Libyan prisoners to secure contracts in Libya. When oil companies have that kind of clout in foreign policy, you won't legislate against them .

Also, you have a small but vocal group on the right of American politics decrying the safety fund as yet more White House socialism, and a larger group on the right and centre-right calling for BP's liability to be limited and for unrestricted drilling to continue. Especially in the current climate, these will prove formidable obstacles to any group trying to get graeter accountability out of the oil companies...

 

[Glider]

The Blame game will have to wait until a proper investigation has taken place. BP rightly are in the firing line but three other major participants should be concerned:-

i) Transocean
They owned and operated the rig. If asked to do anything that was risky they had a duty to refuse as the workers whose lives were at risk were there workers and they had a duty of care
ii) Hallyburton
I believe that they manufactured the blow out preventer that didn't work.
ii) The US Government
Their monitoring of the activities in the waters around the USA was lamentable.

My guess and it is only a guess that the biggest resistance to as proper independent investigation are ii and iii.

 

[vikingBerserker]

I cannot argue with that. Nicely said.

 

[buffnut453]

The Blame game will have to wait until a proper investigation has taken place. BP rightly are in the firing line but three other major participants should be concerned:-

i) Transocean
They owned and operated the rig. If asked to do anything that was risky they had a duty to refuse as the workers whose lives were at risk were there workers and they had a duty of care
ii) Hallyburton
I believe that they manufactured the blow out preventer that didn't work.
ii) The US Government
Their monitoring of the activities in the waters around the USA was lamentable.

My guess and it is only a guess that the biggest resistance to as proper independent investigation are ii and iii.

Add to the above list the penchant for gas-guzzling SUVs in the States and the perception that cheap gas is a God-given right. 'Fraid the pressure to reduce costs within the oil industry will remain a central issue as long as these 2 elements remain a powerful force in motor vehicle design and the thinking of the populace, and both are harder to change than any of the above.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Add to the above list the penchant for gas-guzzling SUVs in the States and the perception that cheap gas is a God-given right. 'Fraid the pressure to reduce costs within the oil industry will remain a central issue as long as these 2 elements remain a powerful force in motor vehicle design and the thinking of the populace, and both are harder to change than any of the above.

Oh, because there are some in the states who choose to drive these gas guzzlers shifts the blame?!? Hogwash!!! For that matter anyone who uses any type of petroleum product should take blame as well. Let's face it, all that black stuff that comes out of the ground (and the sea) isn't all used for gasoline!!!

BP is responsible for this, end of story. You can try to throw in Hallaburton, Transocean and blame a lack of oversight on the US government, but bottom line, the buck stops with BP.

Let me ask some of you folks who live across the sea this - what if a major US oil company did this somewhere in Europe - how do you think the reaction would be?