CANADA TO BUY USED RAAF JETS

Don't get me started.......

You Guys will have to practice flying upside down.....

Gonna be a sum beach to land too

sad

This will end up worse than the used subs :O I wonder when they arrive if J.T. (Justin Trudeau) will post selfies with the aircraft lol

So is this more about politics than common sense?

... it's totally about politics (if I may use that term ). Totally. Bombardier is a Quebec-based charity of the Quebec-Ontario Liberal Party elite.

It's ALL about politics.

Globe editorial: Canada's incurable case of fighter-jet lag

Yikes................

... and yet the Liberal gov't of the time bought into the multi-national Lockheed-Martin F-35 technology development consortium for $$$ millions and has continued to renew year after year. That was the only sane military procurement that Liberals have made since the original decision to procure F-18s .... to replace licence-Bombardier-Montreal- built CF-5s .... that procurement along with the previous procurement of licence-Bombardier-Montreal- built CF-104s. Both of these ACs were totally unsuitable to Canada's defense needs. We should have bough F4 Phantoms ... but I'm guessing that a licensing agreement with McDonnell-Douglas was either not available or not to Bombarier (Canadair's) liking,

michaelmaltby said:

... and yet the Liberal gov't of the time bought into the multi-national Lockheed-Martin F-35 technology development consortium for $$$ millions and has continued to renew year after year. That was the only sane military procurement that Liberals have made since the original decision to procure F-18s .... to replace licence-Bombardier-Montreal- built CF-5s .... that procurement along with the previous procurement of licence-Bombardier-Montreal- built CF-104s. Both of these ACs were totally unsuitable to Canada's defense needs. We should have bough F4 Phantoms ... but I'm guessing that a licensing agreement with McDonnell-Douglas was either not available or not to Bombarier (Canadair's) liking,

Click to expand...

I would agree with the Phantom, its still used by nations today and a kick butt ride, but honestly if we want to save money, let's just procure some Otters/beavers/bush planes with "heavy" weapons (the odd polar bear, penguin etc.) serves dual purposes, saves money by using Canada's natural resources and saves the environment against global warming, cause that's apparently a huge thing now.

Wasn't really a huge Liberal fan in the first place, I always try to give people a chance, but the policies just keep piling up that make his government the "selfie" cabinet of the year, I'm afraid that J.T. will win an Oscar for his acclaimed documentary of himself and his life.

We've both forgot the highlight in our life, they are spending our money, if it was their own then they'd have more policies in place to protect it, when its someone elses they can spend on things that shouldn't be used, like these used 18s

I feel like a used car salesman...."Have we got a deal for you!!!" comes with built in CD DVDs and cigarette lighters thrown in for free......

So the F-35 are not cancelled, just a few more years away. The classic F-18s are a stopgap and will integrate well within Canada's existing CF-18 infrastructure, I would assume mainly to keep pilots, crews and operational units trained and intact until the CF-35 Goddot arrives.

Canada has a few budget problems due to the collapse in oil prices though it must be said that the people who vote for liberal governments don't have balanced budgets as a priority.

Australia has actually accepted delivery of two F-35 at Block 2B standard. It will require 160 modifications to get them to Block 3A which may be combat capable. Because of a method of testing called concurrency the system has not been tested as a whole (supposed to speed things up)

The most amazing thing about the F-35 is its sales team. Didn't President Donald J Trump, horrified by the effect on the budget, want to shut down the whole program in favour of modified super Hornet instead they walked out with more orders (and it must be said a price reduction) though the most stealthy feature of the F-35 is said to be it's budget.

Is the F-35 Americas Me 210 Zerstoerer, a program in which so much has been invested in the form of effort, opportunity, faith, personal reputations that it is impossible to alter.

Interestingly Australias best value for Money turned out to be the F-111, an aircraft that was also steeped in controversy. Having the range to deal with the issue to our immediate north.

The air threat to Canada is non-existent. Stealthy fighter bombers don't stop subway bombers. Why spend money there? What are you fighting for? Is it even worth fighting. Kim Il Jong can't do a thing because it can't put boots on the ground.

The threat to Canada, is as it is to all western nations, internal.

The best thing about buying Canadian Super Hornets may have been to stop it being spent in even more wasteful areas.

The question is, does Canada have a foreseeable threat that the super hornet solves before the arrival of CF-35.

Koopernic said:

Australia has actually accepted delivery of two F-35 at Block 2B standard. It will require 160 modifications to get them to Block 3A which may be combat capable.

Click to expand...

And yet the USMC declared IOC on the 2B software load. Why, then, would the RAAF require 3A before any possibility of combat capability?

Koopernic said:

The threat to Canada, is as it is to all western nations, internal...The question is, does Canada have a foreseeable threat that the super hornet solves before the arrival of CF-35.

Click to expand...

Really? I'm sure those who live close to Ukraine might disagree with you, and then there's that small thing called NATO which might have some impact on Canada's future defence posture.

parsifal said:

I feel like a used car salesman...."Have we got a deal for you!!!" comes with built in CD DVDs and cigarette lighters thrown in for free......

Click to expand...

The RAAF does thing properly. The maintenance will have been lovingly done and the record books kept in order.

Can't say whether they'd be as precise as the Canadian Air Force . I saw amazing things in Canada such as pedestrian crossings that you had to stop at even though there was no one there, just in case. Air Canada is the only airline I've ever flown in in which the cabin crew won't let you unbuckle at the aero bridge after the engines have stopped. They make you wait for the seat belt on signs to extinguish.

buffnut453 said:

And yet the USMC declared IOC on the 2B software load. Why, then, would the RAAF require 3A before any possibility of combat capability?





Really? I'm sure those who live close to Ukraine might disagree with you, and then there's that small thing called NATO which might have some impact on Canada's future defence posture.

Click to expand...

Doubts over fighting ability of Australia's F-35 stealth fighters

The issues in the Ukraine are not a threat to Canada. Nada.

The relationship between Russians and Ukrainians is as the one between New Zealanders and Australians or Canadians and Americans. It's close and good. For there to have been blood drawn is unbelievably tragic.

One thing I saw was a democratically elected government in the Ukraine destabilized by western intelligence agencies and media with the help of a certain one wold Government billionaire famous for short selling the pound.

I'm not talking out of my own blow whole. I've worked in Russia, Ukraine and Siberia in mining area and had many conversations with the guys that take care of security and Hazop issues. They usually have a special forces background.

The issue here is fundamentally that
1 The "wizards of the universe" bankers hate Putin because he reversed the corrupt privatizations that occurred under Boris Yeltsin when the Russian people were vulnerable. They want revenge. There is nothing so awful as a greedy or angry banker. You can't understand the world till you understand money systems and banking systems and their fundamental link to political systems.

Ofcourse they can't say that so they make up stories about Putin hating gays or something. (All the big chain hotels I've stayed at in Moscow and St Petersberg had gay literature and newspapers in their lobby)

2 NATO and EU wanted to enlarge itself. Natural organizational tendency. Also see 1 above.

3 For the Commonwealth of Independent States there is a fundamental issue of viability without Black Sea access.

While Putin and the CIS is not clean in the Ukraine neither is the West. Destabilizing governments is abominable. It should be a crime.

To be frank I'm more afraid of our own western Governments. Parts are out of control. They helped create ISIS (not directly and not perhaps deliberately but by incompetently funding people that worked with them) . In Syria Putin and Assad were the lessor of the two evils.

To get back to basics, I can't see that Canada has a security problem in the Ukraine. It's too far away. Unless it's military industrial complex's need an enemy to justify their money, jobs and shiney new weapons, a deputy dog issue or an alignment with the masters of the universe.

My wish for Canada, wait for the F35 and stay out of it. War is a terrible thing and wars within our own civlisation is suicidal.

5...4...3...2..

michaelmaltby said:

... it's totally about politics (if I may use that term ). Totally. Bombardier is a Quebec-based charity of the Quebec-Ontario Liberal Party elite.

Click to expand...

Many ww2 aircraft net readers will have heard of the Pareto Principle. Often just called the 80:20 principle. For instance the idea that 80% of quality problems can be solved by dealing with 20% of the issue or that say 80% of pollution is caused by 20% of cars.

The idea came out of distributions Italian Economist Wilfredo Pareto noticed when studying revolutions. The insight was that 80% of wealth always ends up with 20% of people. It's far "worse" now I believe.

All movements promote an ideal of utopian equality and wealth. Creates lots of righteous fervor. They all end up the same way, often worse if you think of Pol Pot, Zimbabwe, Holdamoor.

Anyway, I'm out of this thread.

Koopernic said:

Doubts over fighting ability of Australia's F-35 stealth fighters .

Click to expand...

Most of that article presents old information overlaid with a huge dose of obfuscation - lots of hyperbole about major failings without actually going into detail about what they are and whether they are significant operationally. Also, you misquoted the article. The author states the Aussie airframes are to 2B standard but that's contradicted by an ADF spokesperson who made it clear they're already at 3i. More selective quoting to suit the argument perhaps?

I won't go into the rest of the rant about Syria, ISIS and Russia.

Koopernic said:

The issues in the Ukraine are not a threat to Canada. Nada.

Click to expand...

That's total nonsense. The issues in Ukraine and Russian expansionism bring a direct threat much closer to several NATO nations. As a member of NATO, it therefore clearly is a threat to Canada's interests necessitating, by treaty, a military response if Russia (or anyone else) attacks any NATO nation. Is there a direct threat to Canadian territory? Probably not, but the western powers haven't engaged in a fighting war of national survival since 1945....and the point when you realize you have an imminent threat is not the time to start re-equipping. You'll lose before you even start.