Captured On The Way to War

[MIflyer]

On 18 Dec 1943 a number of new B-17's with replacement crews for the 8th AF set out from Gander, Newfoundland, on the northern route to Great Britain. Three B-17's failed to arrive in Scotland for unknown reasons.

One of the crews that made it on that day, led by their pilot, Jim Tyson was assigned to the 381st Bomb Group, 535th Squadron at Ridgewell. And on that day the infamous Nazi radio personality, Lord Haw Haw, welcomed the crew and the others who made that trip on 18 Dec by name, saying they would soon all be either dead or captured. The crew was stunned. What a terrible breach of security!

Later they discovered what had occurred. The navigator of one of the B-17's lost on 18 Dec 43 had failed to recognize that strong winds were forcing them southwards. They crossed the coast not at Scotland, but over Normandy. When they sighted an airfield and flew over, a quick thinking German radio operator responded in English and gave them permission to land. The airplane and its crew were captured intact and interrogation yielded the names of the other crews who made the crossing that day.

Imagine getting captured before you ever got to your first home base!

Source: the book, "D-Day bombers, the Veterans' Story"

 

[billrunnels]

On 18 Dec 1943 a number of new B-17's with replacement crews for the 8th AF set out from Gander, Newfoundland, on the northern route to Great Britain. Three B-17's failed to arrive in Scotland for unknown reasons.

One of the crews that made it on that day, led by their pilot, Jim Tyson was assigned to the 381st Bomb Group, 535th Squadron at Ridgewell. And on that day the infamous Nazi radio personality, Lord Haw Haw, welcomed the crew and the others who made that trip on 18 Dec by name, saying they would soon all be either dead or captured. The crew was stunned. What a terrible breach of security!

Later they discovered what had occurred. The navigator of one of the B-17's lost on 18 Dec 43 had failed to recognize that strong winds were forcing them southwards. They crossed the coast not at Scotland, but over Normandy. When they sighted an airfield and flew over, a quick thinking German radio operator responded in English and gave them permission to land. The airplane and its crew were captured intact and interrogation yielded the names of the other crews who made the crossing that day.

Imagine getting captured before you ever got to your first home base!

Source: the book, "D-Day bombers, the Veterans' Story"

Interesting story. The crossing remained a challenge to the end of WWII.

 

[parsifal]

It is interesting.


This was a document I stumbled across some time ago

http://www.standardcirrus.org/B17sInGermanHands.pdf

 

[billrunnels]

It is interesting.


This was a document I stumbled across some time ago

http://www.standardcirrus.org/B17sInGermanHands.pdf

At mission briefings we were cautioned to be mindful of any aircraft joining the formation late. When this happened, and it did happen, our gunners sighted them until identification could be made. Generally it was a B-17 that couldn't find their squadron during formation and hooked on with us for the mission.

 

[Greg Boeser]

The Germans also used meaconing - sending false radio beacon signals, to lure unsuspecting aircraft off course.
The Germans captured their first example of the B-26 , B-26B-2 #41-17790, flown by 2Lt Clarence Wall, of the 319th BG in this way in November 1942. Wall was enroute to Scotland from the US via the North Atlantic route, when he was lured off course and crashed on the Dutch coast.

 

[MIflyer]

During one of the Project Aphrodite missions, which attempted to crash remote controlled B-17's into high value targets, such as sub pens, an unidentified B-17 joined the formation. The waist gun position windows were closed. The mission commander told his fighter escort to keep a close watch on that B-17 and if anyone opened the side windows or if it made any hostile moves, to shoot it down. If it turned toward the continent, shoot it down. If it went back to England, follow it and find out where it lands.

The mission was a failure, the B-17 "missile" crashing on the approach to the sub pens. They all headed home, still keeping a close watch on the unknown B-17.

Back on the ground, the mission commander's phone rang. It was 8th AF HQ, saying they had decided to come along to watch and that it had looked like a good effort and almost worked. He asked if it was the HQ people in the extra B-17; they replied yes. He asked who was on board and they listed all kinds of brass from the HQ. He replied that it was lucky that no one in that B-17 wanted some fresh air and opened up one of the side windows or else there would be more funerals and court martials than anyone had ever seen. Somebody was supposed to tell them about the high ranking sight-seers but somehow it did not happen.

 

[vikingBerserker]

That is really interesting. Navigating over an ocean back then still amazes me.

 

[Gnomey]

Interesting story!

 

[airminded88]

At mission briefings we were cautioned to be mindful of any aircraft joining the formation late. When this happened, and it did happen, our gunners sighted them until identification could be made. Generally it was a B-17 that couldn't find their squadron during formation and hooked on with us for the mission.

During your missions, did your group get to sight any suspicious looking bomber that would later proved to be Luftwaffe captured Bill?

Greetings

 

[billrunnels]

During your missions, did your group get to sight any suspicious looking bomber that would later proved to be Luftwaffe captured Bill?

Greetings

Not while I was there. I have no idea about the time before my arrival.

 

[ODonovan]

There are conflicting stories on this. Some units swear they had unidentified planes shadow or join their formations. However, official Luftwaffe sources say this was never done. They DID use captured aircraft, painted with CLEAR German markings, to teach their units the strengths and weaknesses of the Allied planes.

I did read about captured planes being used to insert agents behind enemy lines, but I'm not sure how much to trust that account. Allied planes were very valuable to the Luftwaffe for training their personnel, so it's unlikely they risked them. Plus, the chance of friendly fire destroying them would make it too risky to fly them alone. Whenever they flew over German territory, they were always escorted by German fighters.

As an aside, the B-17F 41-24585 "Wolf Hound" (shown in both photos) was (if my information is correct) the first 8th AF B-17 captured by the Luftwaffe. It was from the 360th BS, 303rd BG, Bill's squadron.

-Irish