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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Nice find !
Hahahahahaha! Sweet! Wonder if it's around still?
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.
Gixxerman
Senior Airman
I am convinced that the smoking ban had everything to do with airlines being able to reduce the proper cleaning of cabins (ie save money) and little or nothing (at least as far as they were concerned) to do with health.
GregP
Major
You are incorrect. Second-hand smoke has resulted in a LOT of health issues for non-smokers.
Since my father was a physician, I heard a LOT about this growing up, from the side of the doctors.
Since my father was a physician, I heard a LOT about this growing up, from the side of the doctors.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Not so sure of that, Greg...My Grandfather (Dad's side) was a chain-smoker but passed away in the late 50's due to unrelated health issues.
When my Grandmother passed away in 2012 (at the age of 97) due to lung failure, her physician claimed it was due to second-hand smoke exposure.
However, she smoked for decades. So this idiot claimed second-hand smoked killed her at 97 even though she had been a smoker herself?
Yeah...I could only hope that I will live to the age of 97...regardless.
When my Grandmother passed away in 2012 (at the age of 97) due to lung failure, her physician claimed it was due to second-hand smoke exposure.
However, she smoked for decades. So this idiot claimed second-hand smoked killed her at 97 even though she had been a smoker herself?
Yeah...I could only hope that I will live to the age of 97...regardless.
GregP
Major
Doctors are a lot like mechanics. Some tune race-winning Formula 1 cars. Some shouldn't be allowed to work on a wheelbarrow unsupervised. I would have no way of knowing my dad was one of the very good ones if I hadn't hear it from some 150+ of his patients over the years, and I wasn't soliciting opinions, it just sort of came out at times when they heard the name.
So ... yes ... not all doctors are right when they diagnose something every time and some are pretty thick. Many are very good and all their collective opinions are not usually far from wrong.
I'd like to live to be 97, too. Maybe if I don't fly dangerous simulators in a Corsair versus Zero situation I might make it. You never know just when you'll become a combat casualty. Like the song from Mash says, the game of life is hard to play; you're gonna' lose it anyway ...
So ... yes ... not all doctors are right when they diagnose something every time and some are pretty thick. Many are very good and all their collective opinions are not usually far from wrong.
I'd like to live to be 97, too. Maybe if I don't fly dangerous simulators in a Corsair versus Zero situation I might make it. You never know just when you'll become a combat casualty. Like the song from Mash says, the game of life is hard to play; you're gonna' lose it anyway ...
Cybermat47
Airman
I don't really follow you here. Simply because your Grandfather (my condolences) passed because of unrelated health issues doesn't mean that smoking is harmless.
I was suicidal a few months ago, but if I'd died in a non-suicide way, it wouldn't mean that suicide is harmless.
Did the Doctor know that your Grandmother (again, my condolences) was a smoker?
I meant solely with regard to long haul flights, the air quality is now much worse because they dont have to keep up as much ventilation, the number of people reporting problems after long haul flights has increased hugely since smoking was banned. The air has no smoke in it but it is worse for health because the airlines are saving money.
Let's use some statistics and factual numbers, shall we?
These from the US.
"Secondhand smoke is the combination of smoke from the burning end of a cigarette and the smoke breathed out by smokers. Secondhand smoke contains more than 7,000 chemicals. Hundreds are toxic and about 70 can cause cancer.
Since the 1964 Surgeon General's Report, 2.5 million adults who were nonsmokers died because they breathed secondhand smoke."
That's about 7,330 deaths from lung cancer and 33,950 deaths from heart disease each year. That's people effectively murdered by inconsiderate smokers. In recent times the risks have been well known, there is no excuse.
"There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke.
Second hand smoke causes numerous health problems in infants and children, including more frequent and severe asthma attacks, respiratory infections, ear infections, and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).
Smoking during pregnancy results in more than 1,000 infant deaths annually.
Some of the health conditions caused by second hand smoke in adults include coronary heart disease, stroke, and lung cancer."
It's not cheap either. Estimates for the US put the cost to the economy of second hand smoke at $5.6 billion per year due to lost productivity.
Research in the UK has shown that.
"When someone smokes a cigarette, the smoke from the burning tip is released into the air. So is the smoke they breathe out. Smoke can stay in the air for up to 2.5 hours, even with a window open. It may still be there even if you can't see it or smell it.
This also applies in small enclosed places, such as cars. Smoke may still be present in large amounts even after the person has stopped smoking."
Cancer Research UK notes that.
"Breathing in other people's smoke, also called second-hand smoke, can cause cancer. Passive smoking can increase a non-smoker's risk of getting lung cancer by a quarter, and may also increase the risk of cancers of the larynx (voice box) and pharynx (upper throat).
Second-hand smoke can cause other health problems too, including heart disease, stroke and breathing problems. It's estimated that, every year, second-hand smoke kills over 12,000 people in the UK from lung cancer, heart disease, stroke and the lung disease Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD)."
Thank heavens for the 2007 legislation, the so called smoking ban. I speak as an ex-smoker myself, who had the sense to give up in 1992.
Nobody in their right mind could argue for smoking being permitted in any confined space, least of all on passenger aircraft.
Cheers
Steve
These from the US.
"Secondhand smoke is the combination of smoke from the burning end of a cigarette and the smoke breathed out by smokers. Secondhand smoke contains more than 7,000 chemicals. Hundreds are toxic and about 70 can cause cancer.
Since the 1964 Surgeon General's Report, 2.5 million adults who were nonsmokers died because they breathed secondhand smoke."
That's about 7,330 deaths from lung cancer and 33,950 deaths from heart disease each year. That's people effectively murdered by inconsiderate smokers. In recent times the risks have been well known, there is no excuse.
"There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke.
Second hand smoke causes numerous health problems in infants and children, including more frequent and severe asthma attacks, respiratory infections, ear infections, and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).
Smoking during pregnancy results in more than 1,000 infant deaths annually.
Some of the health conditions caused by second hand smoke in adults include coronary heart disease, stroke, and lung cancer."
It's not cheap either. Estimates for the US put the cost to the economy of second hand smoke at $5.6 billion per year due to lost productivity.
Research in the UK has shown that.
"When someone smokes a cigarette, the smoke from the burning tip is released into the air. So is the smoke they breathe out. Smoke can stay in the air for up to 2.5 hours, even with a window open. It may still be there even if you can't see it or smell it.
This also applies in small enclosed places, such as cars. Smoke may still be present in large amounts even after the person has stopped smoking."
Cancer Research UK notes that.
"Breathing in other people's smoke, also called second-hand smoke, can cause cancer. Passive smoking can increase a non-smoker's risk of getting lung cancer by a quarter, and may also increase the risk of cancers of the larynx (voice box) and pharynx (upper throat).
Second-hand smoke can cause other health problems too, including heart disease, stroke and breathing problems. It's estimated that, every year, second-hand smoke kills over 12,000 people in the UK from lung cancer, heart disease, stroke and the lung disease Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD)."
Thank heavens for the 2007 legislation, the so called smoking ban. I speak as an ex-smoker myself, who had the sense to give up in 1992.
Nobody in their right mind could argue for smoking being permitted in any confined space, least of all on passenger aircraft.
Cheers
Steve
- Thread starter
- #14
As someone who smoked for 10 years, I have to agree...
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The point was, that in many cases, people say "second hand smoke" as a cause of pulmonary problems when there are a wide range of other contributing factors such as pollution and such.
I don't think her physician knew that she had smoked, if memory serves right, she quite in the late 1970's (after smoking for over 4 decades). But she was over 97 years old and for him to say that she passed away due to second-hand smoke irritated the heck out of me.
And I do not condone smoking, it's hard on the body and anything that's not done in moderation can be harmful.
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
all I know is when I go into a bar where smoking is permitted I am congested like crazy the next day. I try to avoid them as much as possible. oh and I smoked for over 30 years...
Gixxerman
Senior Airman
You misunderstand me Greg, I am not saying 2nd hand smoke is not a real issue, I just don't think the airlines gave a damn about it, I do think the smoking ban has led to aircraft which appear to be clean but which are in fact cleaned less and despite superficial appearances are dirtier.
In short they used it as an excuse to cut the cleaning bill.
That is small beer compared to how much they save on keeping oxygen and other levels healthy while in flight.
GregP
Major
Hi Pben,
It isn't since smoking was banned at all. Is is since reducing the fresh airflow. The two may have been approximately coincidental, but the halting of smoking did nothing to make health worse. It is the Oxygen reduction that is the culprit. Let's put the blame where it belongs.
It isn't since smoking was banned at all. Is is since reducing the fresh airflow. The two may have been approximately coincidental, but the halting of smoking did nothing to make health worse. It is the Oxygen reduction that is the culprit. Let's put the blame where it belongs.
