Continental XI-1430: A day late, a dollar short...

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by gjs238, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. gjs238

    gjs238 Well-Known Member

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    ...But how did it perform?
    Does anyone know how this engine would have compared to its contemporaries?
     
  2. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    More like 10 years late and million short.

    Continental XI-1430 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Somebody writing these articles for wiki keeps getting the Merlin performance wrong ( and the DB 601 on occasion) as in " At the time it was an extremely competitive design, offering at least 1,300 hp (970 kW) from a 23 liter displacement; the contemporary Rolls-Royce Merlin offered about 1,000 hp (700 kW) from 27 l displacement, while the Daimler-Benz DB 601 offered slightly more power at 1,100 hp (820 kW), but was much larger, at 33 l displacement."

    At the time the V-1430 was offering 1300hp (1940) the Merlin had been offering 1000hp for 3 years and in 1940 was offering 1300hp or better in the MK XX and 45 versions. Going to almost 1500hp with increased boost.

    I wold also note that the "The Merlin V-1650 weighed in at 1640" was for a two stage Merlin and not single stage Merlin so the weight comparison is way off.
     
  3. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

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  4. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    It is really funny what kind of rating people are thinking when saying 'the 1030 HP Merlin', or '1100 HP DB-601A'. The 1 minute take off DB-601A rating, vs. 15 (or 30?) minute rating of the Merlin III at ~16000 ft?
    On 5 min rating, the Merlin III was good for 1300 HP at 9000 ft, the 5 min rating of the 601A (with 'new' supercharger) was ~1055 HP (not PS) at 6890 ft, and 1006 HP at 14764 ft.
     
  5. gjs238

    gjs238 Well-Known Member

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    #5 gjs238, Mar 21, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
    Wow! That's fantastic.
    I had no idea an operating XI-1430 was out and about like that :)
     
  6. rinkol

    rinkol Member

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    #6 rinkol, Mar 21, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
    The Continental engine seems to have been a major disappointment if the XP67 test program is anything to go by (McDonnell XP-67 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Probably the reversion to the separate cylinder construction was a faulty idea. Aside from this, advances in fuels and supercharger technology enabled competing engines having larger cylinders to achieve high specific power outputs. The hyper cylinder concept seems to have infected numerous US engine development programs - certainly the Wright R-2160 and Lycoming O-1230 were based on very similar ideas. There may have also been some influence on the Chrysler IV-2220, though this engine did have a cylinder capacity that was closer to that of contemporary engines.
     
  7. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    When the IV-1430 first flew in 1943 it was unable to develop its rated power of, IIRC, 1600hp. It seemed to be giving just over 1000hp.

    The IV-1430 powered the Lockheed XP-49. The XP-49 was unable to match the performance of the P-38, even though it was a refined version of the P-38. It ended up doing duty as a landing gear test rig (lift it up and drop it on its wheels!).

    The XP-67 loved the IV-1430 so much the pilot is said to, at one stage, have deliberately destroyed the engines.
     
  8. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    The Continental IV-1430 started as an opposed engine of around 1230cid (same as the Lycoming, as it was based on the same cylinder). At some stage it was realised that was going to be too small, and the cylinder size increased. It was also realised that the supposed benefits of a flat engine for burying in wing installations was not that great, if there was any at all. So it was changed to a V-12.

    Lycoming started a bit later than Continental, and too realised that the O-1230 wasn't going to be powerful enough to be usedful. Their solution was to double up the engine to create the H-2470, an H-24. This powered the XP-54, and was to power the XF14C except it was deemed too unreliable and was replaced by the R-3350 (itself struggling with reliability issues at the time).

    The Chrysler IV-2220 is very much an engine using the hyper cylinder. 2 valves per cylinder arranged in a hemispherical head with separate cylinder construction (though some dispute this). The IV-2220 was a V-16, which accounts for its larger capacity. It was looong - about half as long again as a Griffon of similar capacity.
     
  9. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

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    The Wright R-2160 was ever so slightly nuts. 42 cylinders in modules of 14 with 3 crankshafts and 7 lay shafts to drive the prop reduction gear. And all made without Wright actually having a dedicated experimental shop!
     
  10. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    The guy running that engine really doesn't know much about WWII V-12 engines.

    If you treat an Allison or a Merlin like that it will rapidly fail on you or will wear out VERY prematurely. They like to change rpm gradually and not until they are warmed up and at operating temperature.
     
  11. gjs238

    gjs238 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I was wondering about that. I wonder if the video was edited and we did not see the entire engine run.
     
  12. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Don't know, but we DID see the sudden acceleration, which damages big V-12's if done often.

    The bearings are plain bearings of steel, lead, and silver, and do NOT like to have sudden acceleration or sudden deceleration. They really like constant speed and slow changes in speed.
     
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