Controversial airplanes...

[Elmas]

Dont't give me a G-91
Flying backwards when firing its gun
it's slow and it creeps
off the runway it seems
Dont't give me a G-91
Chorus!
Don't give me an '86-K
with rockets, radar & AB
she's fast, I don't care
she blows up in mid-air!
don't give me an 86-K
Chorus!
Don't give me an F-104
with a shaker and kicker and all
It pitches and spins
with no wings and no fins
Don't give me an F-104
Chorus!

 

[Admiral Beez]

Sending F-4 Phantom IIs to tangle with Vietnamese MiG-19 and MiG-21 without a gun was a controversial design decision, or should have been IMO. Did anyone ask the pilots what they wanted or needed?

 

[Gen. MacArthur]

Nice! That was a cool jam. But i like the F-86. It looks super clean and sleek.

 

[Tom Fey]

The development and intent of the TFX / F-111 aircraft was about as controversial as you can get.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The development and intent of the TFX / F-111 aircraft was about as controversial as you can get.

F-22 in my book. 187 aircraft for a total program cost of over US$80 billion in 2020 dollars. That's US$428 million per aircraft.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

F-22 in my book. 187 aircraft for a total program cost of over US$80 billion in 2020 dollars. That's US$428 million per aircraft.

And worth every penny. Believe me when I say it is untouchable at the moment.

 

[SaparotRob]

F-22 in my book. 187 aircraft for a total program cost of over US$80 billion in 2020 dollars. That's US$428 million per aircraft.

Economy of scale.
Had more been built, the per unit cost would have gone down. I truly believe it would have been money well spent. To just give up something that tremendous was short sighted. Oh well.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Sending F-4 Phantom IIs to tangle with Vietnamese MiG-19 and MiG-21 without a gun was a controversial design decision, or should have been IMO. Did anyone ask the pilots what they wanted or needed?

More like, did anybody ask the pilots what they wanted or needed? ...well,..uh,...no, but what does that matter? In the end Congress saw fit to fund a fix for the USAF, but not USN.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

The development and intent of the TFX / F-111 aircraft was about as controversial as you can get.

The ultimate Macnamara "pignorantism"!

 

[Elmas]

And worth every penny. Believe me when I say it is untouchable at the moment.

And for many years to come, I think.
Geopolitical situation apart, probably F-22 has been so successful to convince Pentagon that even a much less number of planes was sufficient to scare potential enemies.
But of course they won't tell that in these terms..

 

[Admiral Beez]

And for many years to come, I think.
Geopolitical situation apart, probably F-22 has been so successful to convince Pentagon that even a much less number of planes was sufficient to scare potential enemies.
But of course they won't tell that in these terms..

The F-22 program reminds me of the Seawolf-class SSNs, both considered by Congress as technological overkill in the post Cold War period, at an unsustainable price tag. One replaced by the F-35, the other by the Virginia-class SSN.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The F-22 program reminds me of the Seawolf-class SSNs, both considered by Congress as technological overkill in the post Cold War period, at an unsustainable price tag. One replaced by the F-35, the other by the Virginia-class SSN.

The F-22 is not being replaced by the F-35. They are fulfill two different roles.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The F-22 is not being replaced by the F-35. They are fulfill two different roles.

The F-22 can't do the F-35's strike role, but isn't the F-35 being asked to do what the F-22 was intended for, that of air superiority? The Lightning is certainly being marketed as multirole aircraft with a strong air superiority capability. That's what the USN is hoping they're getting.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The F-22 can't do the F-35's strike role, but isn't the F-35 being asked to do what the F-22 was intended for, that of air superiority? The Lightning is certainly being marketed as multirole aircraft with a strong air superiority capability. That's what the USN is hoping they're getting.

The F-35 is not built to do the air superiority roll of the 22. Just sit them next to each other and you will see what I mean.

i'm not knocking the 35, it is a great aircraft, although I certainly have personal reasons to push up the 22.

Think F-22 = F-15 while F-35 = F-18

 

[Admiral Beez]

The F-35 is not built to do the air superiority roll of the 22.

I understand. But the F-35 is being asked to do the role of the 22. When I think of the F-15 it's the multirole Strike Eagle, not the pure fighter variant that comes to mind.

The first F-22 was introduced in 2005 and has an estimated 30 year lifespan, and as they begin retiring in the the next fifteen years and the number of Lightnings increases into the hundreds, the F-35 is going to have to fill the F-22's role. By 2040, about nineteen years from today there will be no F-15 or F-16 in US service, and an increasingly declining number of F-22s. It's going to be thousands of F-35 and whatever Skynet-controlled ROV the complex has flogged.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I understand. But the F-35 is being asked to do the role of the 22. When I think of the F-15 it's the multirole Strike Eagle, not the pure fighter variant that comes to mind.

The first F-22 was introduced in 2005 and has an estimated 30 year lifespan, and as they begin retiring in the the next fifteen years and the number of Lightnings increases into the hundreds, the F-35 is going to have to fill the F-22's role. By 2040, about nineteen years from today there will be no F-15 or F-16 in US service, and an increasingly declining number of F-22s. It's going to be thousands of F-35 and whatever Skynet-controlled ROV the complex has flogged.

The F-22 will be around longer than 2035. That is why we have SMR.

The replacement for the 22 will be another platform all together.

 

[Capt. Vick]

B-1?

 

[fubar57]

B-1?

 

[Husky]

Indeed. But, those smarter?????

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Very fitting for today...