Coupling & motor

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Larrythepilot

Airman
23
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Jun 7, 2020
I'm back, with 2 more parts I would like help identifying. I previously explained, in some detail, that I am the volunteer Curator of the Freeman army Airfield Museum, in Seymour, IN, USA. If you're interested, see the Fw-190 Tire Size thread.

The first new part is a coupling of some sort. It puts me in mind of the sort of fitting that would be on the end of a hand-starter crank. It is of heavy construction, about 61mm in through length, 56mm across the "ears", and a shaft diameter of 18mm. The only markings are C-9, with 2 touching diamonds underneath. The flaking paint is gray in color. Some pictures are attached.

I'm going to have to do the 2nd item; I see I'm due at the airport very soon. Thanks for your help. ..... Larry
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Larrythepilot

Airman
23
12
Jun 7, 2020
Here's the 2nd item. It is a small motor, apparently manufactured by Siemens, about 160mm long (including the shaft), and 73mm in diameter, with a contact block protruding off one side. It has a legible data plate attached. What was it used for? What did it move, or power? Some pictures are attached. Thanks,
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Larrythepilot

Airman
23
12
Jun 7, 2020
Hello Wurger, and thank you for the prompt reply.
The first digit of the Anf.-Z number is very hard to read. I'll attach some additional very close-up pictures, but they don't help very much. And trying to read it with a magnifying glass doesn't make it any better. My best guess right now is that the first digit is an E. The bottom of the E is down in the black.
The last digit is a 2. Don't forget that this motor was buried for 65 years, and banged around against other things that were considered to be junk.

.
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Wurger

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I understand that the 65 years unter the ground could affect the data plate. But the reason I asked aboutthe Fl number is that I also read the "E". However the first letter there should be a digit rather. As a result the number looks a little bit too odd.

OK. It loks like the Fl niumber can start with the E. SO it should be Fl.E.572102

The 19 of the Gerät number indicates the Bord-Elektrisches und Hydraulisches Gerät .

Here is a data plate for the Siemens drive motor for ammunition supply of remote-controlled MG 131 .. Fl.34316 as an example.

Fl.34316-Motor.jpg

the source: the net.
 

Elvis

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You probably already figured this out, but according to Google, "The 19 of the Gerät number indicates the Bord-Elektrisches und Hydraulisches Gerät "
Translates to "The 19 of the device number indicates the onboard electrical and hydraulic device".
I also notice the shaft has flat end on it.
The "ears" of the coupler shown in picture one don't happen to fit that flat section, does it?
 

Wurger

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Your data plate .... there is one number I did't work out only ... at the left bottom corner.

Motor
Bauart SAM L mot (2/4?)5/120 h 2 ka
Gerät-Nr. 19-5721/B1 Anf.-Z. Fl. E 5721 02
Werk-Nr. 5500439 E

Hersteller: Siemens App.u.Masch.G.m.b.H.
Betr.-Spg. 27V Strom-Aufn. 10A
Abg.-Lstg. 120W Betr.-Dauer KB 15sek.
??(4?)(6)0 U/min 8500

mot1.jpg
 

Elvis

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I think the "U/Min" is how fast the motor turns. That is quite fast, despite its diminutive size.
 
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Larrythepilot

Airman
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Jun 7, 2020
Thanks, Wurger & Elvis. So what does all this mean? Is my little motor the ammo feed motor for an MG-131? That would be very good, since we have an MG-131. We could display the motor with the gun. ..... No the coupler from the first set of photos does not match the shaft end on the little motor. The coupler is half the size of the entire motor. Here's a picture of the 2 pieces together, so you can see the relative size.

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Elvis

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EEE-gads! yeah, those won't work together.
Sorry, I was thinking that motor might've been bigger than it actually is. I forgot you listed the dimensions.
Very likely the ammo feed motor for your machine gun.
 

Wurger

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Thanks, Wurger & Elvis. So what does all this mean? Is my little motor the ammo feed motor for an MG-131? That would be very good, since we have an MG-131. We could display the motor with the gun. ..... No the coupler from the first set of photos does not match the shaft end on the little motor. The coupler is half the size of the entire motor. Here's a picture of the 2 pieces together, so you can see the relative size.


Actually I couldn't find any info on the servo motor. Neither the Fl. number nor the Gerat one could help. All the motors I found had the different Fl numbers and what is more, there was one shaft protruding only. These included the MG131 servo motor and the one for trimming of the horizontal stabilizer. But it should be mentioned that Germans used quite a lot of the electrical devices for their planes. Eg. Fw 190 had the retracting/lowereing down flaps running by the servo motors. etc... So it can't be stated at 100% what the motor was used for. It has two shafts protruding what indicates the synchronised work with two devices.
The "19" number of the Gerat-Nr. 19-5721/B1 indicates the on-board electric and hydraulic device. As a result it could be a motor for the fuel pump(s), landing gear, etc. But as I had mentioned that before , no info on that so far.
 

Wurger

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Ok IMHO I have found a similar motor. No made by Simens but the same Gerat number. According to the site it was used for Fw190, Bf 109, Ju87. It looks like your motor is incomplete. There is the lack of the part of the device case and the gear at the one protruding shaft ( but it migh be a factory variation ) . Additionally a different supply voltage for the device, 24V instead of 27V. But it is a similar servo motor I would say. Keeping searching ....

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the pic source: Rare and Excellent condition, original, complete.
 

Larrythepilot

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Jun 7, 2020
Thanks for your help. I think I'll display the motor with the gun, and create an exhibit sign that says something like This type of servo motor was used to power the ammunition feed for the MG-131 machinegun.
 

Wurger

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Sounds good. Not exactly true but who can know, just you and me and maybe a couple of guys here who can stop by here. ;)
 

Elvis

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Wurger,

Wouldn't the "werk-nr" number play a similar role as a typical serial number?
Like the assembly number on Mauser rifles. They're not a serial number, per se, but they be considered in the same sort of light.
 

Wurger

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Yes, the "werk nummer" is a serial number ( actually a factory number ). But I have checked on all of the data regarding the manufacturer, factory and device. And nothing found. A couple of similar motors only. Even the site with Fl numbers doesn't have it on the list there.
 

special ed

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An observation. It is possible, especially late in the war, the people assembling/repairing motors and stamping tags were camp prisoners with little language knowledge or care about what is marked, therefore the restamp may have mistakes. My P-38 pistol manufactured at Walther 1941 has a star of David stamped in a place unseen unless completely disassembled. A Jewish model club member, many years ago, bought an authentic Kueblevagen and did a complete disassembly and restoration. He found the star of David stamped in six places during the restoration. My opinion, it was to show to the world "they were there". One of my books tells of V-2 worker prisoners urinating on the gyros during assembly, hoping to provide guidance instability.
 

EAIAnalog

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Sep 1, 2009
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As a servo motor, 8500 RPM is unusable. Normally there is a gear head attached that reduces the speed to something reasonable. If you look at the flat end of the motor, there are 4 clean screw holes, which imply that a gear head was attached to that end. Possibly that gear head is among the restoration parts at the museum. Or contact the motor source and see if they removed it.

Also I find the ratings on the various nameplates interesting. The motor in question is rated at 27 volts, 10 amps or 270 watts. But the wattage rating is 120 watts. Maybe that reflects the losses in the gear train? maybe a continuous use rating?
 

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