de Havilland 4 engined unarmed bomber

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by wuzak, May 17, 2012.

  1. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Hobart Tasmania
    Did such a proposal exist?

    I have read about the improved Mosquito project with two Griffons and the Super Mosquito with two Sabres, but was there a 4 engined job?

    Would it have had 4 x Merlins?

    What load, range, performance was it projected to have?
     
  2. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Hobart Tasmania
    Anybody?

    I was hoping there was a reference in Buttler's British Secret Projects. I have a copy but don't currently have access.

    If we can't find any info, how about a hypothetical?

    Can we make a 4 engined high speed bomber?

    I would think that we could start with 4 x Merlin 20s and open up to a choice of metal or wooden construction.

    Crew - I'm thinking 3 - pilot, navigator, bombadier.

    If we aim for an 8000lb bomb load, what wing span do we need? Can we match Mosquito speeds and endurance, or exceed them?

    Will the size limit manoeuvrability, and thus mean less advantage over traditional heavies?
     
  3. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    24,069
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Korporate Kontrolleur
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I only came across their Albatross, but it appears that it was never considered as a potential bomber. I could not find anything else.
     
  4. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Japan
    The 4 engine Mosquito never really appears to have been studied seriously. De Havilland and the Air Ministry were busy with the DH 99/101 (the heavy/super/Sabre Mosquito/Mosquito Series II/Mosquito Hawk, or whatever you want to call it) and the Hornet and Vampire.

    The Sabre Mosquito was a slightly up-scaled DH 98, meant to haul 5000 lbs internally (possibly 8000 lbs) to a combat radius of about 600 miles (roughly London to Berlin and back again) and a still air cruising range of about 1700-1800 miles. Top speed was to be somewhere in the region of 415-430 mph.

    Power was to have been supplied by a, three stage, two speed Sabre E. 118 making somewhere from 2100-2200 hp. By late 1941/early 1942 its clear Napier had way too much on its plate getting the Sabre into mass production and reliable enough and development would be seriously delayed. The Griffon 61 was considered, but the performance hit from the less powerful engine basically meant the end for the project.

    There was some talk of fitting the aircraft with the Rolls-Royce Eagle or even a jet engine, but by 1944 it was clear that a new generation of aircraft were in the works, and thus the development of the Canberra – which would be the closest thing to a spiritual successor for the Mosquito.
     
  5. Grampa

    Grampa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Like this?

    4MOSSIE-02.jpg
     
  6. herman1rg

    herman1rg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,151
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Looks nice
     
  7. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    24,069
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Korporate Kontrolleur
    Location:
    South Carolina
  8. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Hobart Tasmania
    Yeah.

    Where did you find that, or did you make it?

    The engines seem too close together, and their props are in line so could get a bit messy!
     
  9. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,993
    Likes Received:
    438
    Trophy Points:
    83
    The drawing is really cool :)
     
  10. Grampa

    Grampa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    From a webbsite where ppl can focusting on discussion on what if - plane's. Not sure if I should out up the link to it, they are in some what a rival to this webbsites.
     
  11. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Hobart Tasmania
    You could PM interested people the link. Like me!

    About the drawing....

    The distance between the inner and outer engines needs to be double what it is shown there. The inner engine also needs to be moved forward, to allow clearence for the props.

    4MOSSIE-02b.jpg
     
  12. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Hobart Tasmania
    Since we are carrying a bigger bomb load thewings will probably have to be repositioned aft.

    4MOSSIE-02c.jpg
     
  13. fastmongrel

    fastmongrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    406
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Motor Mechanic
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Post the link if the moderators dont like it they will remove it. If you want to ask the mods if its okay to post send one of them a private message and they will discuss it and get back to you.
     
  14. Timppa

    Timppa Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Finland


    Using data from Wiki:
    Four engined Mosquito XVI:
    Scale all dimensions by factor 1.41:
    1. Wing area 908 ft2
    2. Wing span 23.4 m
    3. Loaded weight 51,200lb, maximum 70,700 lb (same class as Lancaster or B-17)
    4. Bomb load 11,000lb to Berlin and back.

    (Aircrafts don't exactly obey square-cube law though)
    Same speed as twin engined Mosquito.
    The crew could be the same than twin engined plane(2), added with tail gunner.
     
  15. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    3,743
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Engineer
    Location:
    Nelson
    Not much in Tony Butttttler's British Secret Projects as requested by Wuzak:

    "De Havilland also studied a development of the Mosquito with four Merlins as a 'fast' heavy bomber but the general arrangement drawing known to have been produced has not been found. In 1941 the company did put forward a design for a high-speed unarmed night bomber, which was a fairly big aircraft of around 46,000 lb (20,866 KG) weight and it seems pretty certain that these were the same project."

    Yep Jabberwock, the Canberra was a worthy spiritutal successor to the Mossie - it was initially conceived by Teddy Petter as a private project with Westland as the A.1 bomber with engines buried in the fuselage, but due to differences over things, Petter left Westland in 1945 and went to English Electric, with whom he sorted the A.1 into what became the exceptional Canberra bomber.
     
  16. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Hobart Tasmania
    Why 1.41?

    The Sabre Mosquito (projected 430mph, 600lb bomb load) would have used 3 crew - pilot, navigator, bombadier. Why would a 4 engined Mossie be any different? Whay would you need a tail gun?
     
  17. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Hobart Tasmania
    Thanks nuuumann
     
  18. buffnut453

    buffnut453 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    227
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Virginia, US of A
  19. wuzak

    wuzak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Hobart Tasmania
  20. Timppa

    Timppa Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Finland
    #20 Timppa, Sep 14, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
    I wanted the wing area and wetted area to be double the original. So with the same shape all dimensions have to be enlarged by factor of square root of 2.
    Drag area doubled, parasitic drag doubled, but with twice the power, roughly the same speed.

    Twin engined Mossie combined the duties of navigator/bombardier. Why would a 4 engined Mossie be any different?
    When in war, I would like to have at least one gun than no guns at all. And tail gun was/is the most important of them. AFAIK B-52's still have them.
     
Loading...

Share This Page