**** DONE: Defiant 264Sqn PS*V 28 Aug 1940 BoB

[N4521U]

Username: N4521U
Name: Bill
Category: 2 intermediate
Scale: 1/72
Kit: MPM Boulton Paul Defiant Mk.1

Looking for something else a little out of the ordinary, it seems, or I haven't seen, anyone is doing a Defiant. I have located a bit of information on a downed defiant, both pilot and gunner lost, over Thanet (Kent) on the 28th of August 1940. I have found a photo of the headstone of the gunner, the log listing them as crashed, and a photo of the plane before the fact. I thought it would be significant to do something "in memory" so to speak.

Accessories: Cockpit/turret insides, prop, wheels. Decals for the VP*S and serial. Bought the exhausts, but they were wrong, so I drilled out the kit pieces.…

I wanted to do something Navy for the BoB GB, however it seems in the infinite wisdom of the RAF, as I posted in another thread, there were no flying boats operating for ASR.

Am looking forward to doing this plane! Bill

 

[vikingBerserker]

Very cool! I always love the unique ones!

 

[Crimea_River]

Good choice Bill.

 

[B-17engineer]

Cool choice!

 

[Wayne Little]

Good one Bill, I take it you are getting it from Craig!

 

[N4521U]

Yep Wayne, I am. Seems I can always turn to him and know he wants to serve. He gives good advice.

To the others, thanks. I guess I am always looking for the "story". If you watch the movie Amistad, there is a point when the lawyer is asked "but what is their story"?

These two poor blokes are among the ones we have to thank, thank for having the freedom we enjoy today. Sorry for getting too deep in my reason. Is just my way of paying my respects is all. Enough.

I am looking for a little help. Need a diagram of the cockpit if anyone has something. Everything on the web is rather vague. The kit is coded PS*A, I think I can turn the "A" 180 and get the "V" I am after, but the serial number I need some help with. Cheers

 

[Wayne Little]

Yep Wayne, I am. Seems I can always turn to him and know he wants to serve. He gives good advice.

Yep, known Craig a while now and he is always willing to go the extra step!

 

[dirkpitt289]

Great choice. I was contemplating doing the defiant myself for the BoB GB. What kit are you going to use and what are your plans for addressing the deficiencies (Nose, Wings, tail) of all the Defiant kits?

 

[N4521U]

Dirk, is the MPM kit in 1/72. Haven't seen the kit yet, so haven't developed a Plan yet. I may have to ask for advice on what needs correcting. Not much out there in the way of plan and elevation views, or even good side on pictures that I have found. You got any I might be able to use??? Would be very greatfull. Bill

 

[dirkpitt289]

In fact I do. Terry has sent me some stuff and I've found a few links myself. I'll be glade to put something together for you. PM me your email address. If I don't get back to you right away please feel free to remind me that you are waiting as I tend to forget things sometimes.

 

[Airframes]

Nice one Bill. Note that the code letters were Medium Sea Grey, not white. I don't have any decals to help with the black serial numbers, as I don't normally do 1/72nd scale, but there are after market sheets available if no one can help.
Start a thread in the BoB Group Build section when you're ready, and, depending what Dirk sends you, let me know of you need anything else. I should have scale plans and a cutaway drawing, not sure about cockpit stuff though.

 

[dirkpitt289]

Nice one Bill. Note that the code letters were Medium Sea Grey, not white. I don't have any decals to help with the black serial numbers, as I don't normally do 1/72nd scale, but there are after market sheets available if no one can help.
Start a thread in the BoB Group Build section when you're ready, and, depending what Dirk sends you, let me know of you need anything else. I should have scale plans and a cutaway drawing, not sure about cockpit stuff though.

I'll be sending the same stuff you sent me and a few links to some builds. If you have anything to add let me know too. You can never have enough info before starting a new build

 

[Airframes]

can't remember what I sent you Dirk !
I have: 1/72nd scale plans, including a sectioned side elevation; cutaway drawing, colour profiles and one mediocre B&W pic of the cockpit, plus an article on how to correct the Airfix kit.

 

[antoni]

Notice the pale appearance of the undersides? 264 squadron Defiants were painted a duck egg green colour not Sky. Most likely BSS 381 (1930) No 16 Eau de Nil (as is the BoB Flight's Hurricane LF363) to DTD 63A with reduced gloss.

Tip of the spinner white. The original intention was to paint them in flight colours but there is no evidence that this was ever done. All the framing of the turret black.

Eau de Nil can be obtained from WEM.

White Ensign Models RAF/Fleet Air Arm

 

[N4521U]

Brilliant antoni! I can't help but think my First really serious build will have all the tools I need to do a great model. I hope I can live up to it!

Plus I saw in another description as well, no roundels on the underside of the wings. I just noticed the three bars on the vert stab are wider than the illustrations show.

Please keep any info coming.

 

[Tony Hill]

Good luck with the build and great idea to honour some of the lesser knowns but equally brave!

 

[antoni]

Plus I saw in another description as well, no roundels on the underside of the wings.

That is correct. In accordance with Air Ministry instructions at that time these Defiants did not have under wing roundels.

Telegram X.119 dated 2/9/39 ordered that all aircraft over flying France should carry Type A roundels under the wings. This applied to the BEF but also could include any aircraft base in Britain that spent time over France.

Signal X479 4/6 sent 15th May 1940 (when fighter aircraft were painted black/white underneath) ordered that under wing roundels should be painted under the wingtips with that under the port wing outlined with a narrow band of Yellow. This may have been a knee jerk reaction to the chaotic conditions of the British withdrawal from the continent. It did not last for long. On 6th June Signal X915 ordered all fighters were to be painted all over Sky on the undersurfaces with no under wing roundels. On 23rd July a meeting was held with a view to standardising aircraft markings. As a result of this meeting under wing roundels on fighter aircraft were reintroduced.

 

[N4521U]

Now, I have found something rather puzzellllllllling. According to the page I found this picture on, the guns were forward in the lowest position on take off? Anyone heard of this? Does anyone have the flight manual for this airplane?

As the story went, the pilot set off the guns in a single burst, shooting a hole thru his flight jacket. Sounds like something I would do......

 

[Airframes]

Yes, that was the S.O.P. for take off and landing. If the gunner needed to exit in an emergency, for example aborted take off / crash landing, the turret 'doors' were at the rear. With the turret in use, the fairing between the cockpit and turret retracted at an angle of approximately 45 degrees. For take off and landing, the guns should be on 'Safe', and I believe there was also a detent to prevent accidental discharge when in the 'stowed' position, or when forward, in line with the prop.
Coincidentally, I've just watched some film footage of the crew boarding, flying, fighting and disembarking from a Defiant in 1940.

 

[antoni]

As the story went, the pilot set off the guns in a single burst, shooting a hole thru his flight jacket. Sounds like something I would do......

It does not seem very likely. That has been discussed at length here.

Strange Boulton Paul Defiant anecdote - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums