Done : Major Tratt's Me410A-1/U2/R4: Gruppe Build

Erich · Jan 1, 2009

Mic have a migrane this morn but want to confirm the line up as being truely ZG 26 and not a funny b/w photo showing yellow banded ZG 76.

For Tratt's crate think the a/c had 6 2cm weapons or at least 4 in the nose plus the mg's. am terrible with the variants of the 410 as there many different allocations of 2cm and 3cm weapons packages installed. This is one bomber killer where the maintenance crews had a hey-day with improvising and supplanting the standard 2cm cannon arms with upgrades and the single or twin Br 21 under each wing

Micdrow · Jan 1, 2009

Erich said:
Mic have a migrane this morn but want to confirm the line up as being truely ZG 26 and not a funny b/w photo showing yellow banded ZG 76.

For Tratt's crate think the a/c had 6 2cm weapons or at least 4 in the nose plus the mg's. am terrible with the variants of the 410 as there many different allocations of 2cm and 3cm weapons packages installed. This is one bomber killer where the maintenance crews had a hey-day with improvising and supplanting the standard 2cm cannon arms with upgrades and the single or twin Br 21 under each wing

Thanks Erich,

Im learning slowly. I got a good teacher.

Sorry to hear of the migrane, hope you feel better!!!!

Lucky13 · Jan 1, 2009

Check this website out mate! WW2 Warbirds: the Messerschmitt Me 410 Hornisse (Hornet) - Frans Bonn and this one Hornisse The Messerschmitt Me 410 Page....

Erich · Jan 1, 2009

I think Tratts last crate probably was an A-1/U2 again in the nose four 2cm plus the twin mg's and then under the fuselage Waffenpod two 2cm weapons.

one fo the stinkers in the official losses listings carried at BA/MA in Freiburg as it does not give sub-variants of aircraft lost. Tratts loss indeed just gives Me 410A-1.

and for the above profile , yes II./ZG 26 was based at Königsberg-Devau in the summer of 44 till disbandment.

Njaco · Jan 1, 2009

I think Tratts last crate probably was an A-1/U2 again in the nose four 2cm plus the twin mg's and then under the fuselage Waffenpod two 2cm weapons.

Thanks Erich, thats the variant I was going to go with. And the Gruppe bar and numerals may have - as you said - been 'B' model as opposed to an 'A' late in '44. I was set on a blue numeral with just a black Gruppe bar but am thinking may have to add the '3U' somewhere - maybe in place of the Gruppe marking. I still have time, gonna start it this afternoon.

Any thinking on the spinner color?

and my migaine is bigger than yours!

Njaco · Jan 1, 2009

So I have started. Removed the trees and washed and dried all the parts, then settled down to begin. Instead of resting - as I have a slight hangover with a chest cold that throws great whomping coughs through my body -I decided to start this and began with the cockpit tubs.

These pics show my workspace - not a glitzy workbench but I have a great toolbox that I found years ago with 3 trays that holds all my stuff - paints, tweezers, numerous files and sandpaper and paints, etc. My workbench is actually my coffee table in the living room. I don't have a set 'area' yet but hopefully soon. I have it set up so that when done everything packs up nice and away out of sight of the 'Boss".

After starting the cockpit tubs I began to wonder if 1/48 was now too small scale for me. After gluing one section in upside down and another small piece that zipped off the tweezer into carpet-land (I'll never see that again!) I'm ready for tommorrow to connect the 2 tubs via the shelf and begin on the fuselage pieces.

Even my pre-wife is supporting me. When I lost that little piece, she got down on her hands and knees while I complained. "You want to win this, don't you?!" was her reply.

Its already beginning to be fun!

Njaco · Jan 1, 2009

I'm still having problems with the markings. Micdrow thats a great profile but you deepen the mystery as that one shows rockets and the werk number near the fuselage and not at the top of the rudder. Ugghh! These pics are from the one source I have which is the squadron book Erich mentioned. Again, any ideas?

Micdrow · Jan 2, 2009

Njaco said:
I'm still having problems with the markings. Micdrow thats a great profile but you deepen the mystery as that one shows rockets and the werk number near the fuselage and not at the top of the rudder. Ugghh! These pics are from the one source I have which is the squadron book Erich mentioned. Again, any ideas?

Hi Njaco,

Ive been going through the following books that I have on the Me-410 as followed below.

Squadron Siginal Me 210/410
Kargero Airshow series Me 210/410
Kargero Me 410 in combat
Yellow book Series Me 410
Wydawnictwo Me 210/410

From what Ive found by looking at the pictures is that the werk number is indeed near the spine of the aircraft. If you notice its near the same location as the pictures youve posted.

Second, Im very puzzled with your profile of 3U-CC. I cant remember which book it is but it shows a walk around of a Me 410 with the same code letters but a totally different emblem on the nose. Going to have to look at this closer in the morning as its almost mid night here and my brain is starting to fry. Erich may now more on this also.

Third as for the rockets I not totally sure but I thought I remember reading some where that some units flew with mixed weapon types depending on what was available. Erich probably know more on this also.

Njaco · Jan 2, 2009

Thanks Micdrow. I don't how I missed your last 2 posts on page one but I'm going to go through that link.

Did you notice how the 2 profiles of 'Yellow 7" that I posted have the radio mast whereas the actual pic says it was deleted?

Micdrow · Jan 2, 2009

Njaco said:
Thanks Micdrow. I don't how I missed your last 2 posts on page one but I'm going to go through that link.

Did you notice how the 2 profiles of 'Yellow 7" that I posted have the radio mast whereas the actual pic says it was deleted?

Yeah I noticed that as well, both the upper and lower are missing yet your profile shows both. But take a look at your picture you posted of Yellow 7. Its the same as mine. Yours just shows one side of the aircraft and mine shows the other side. Looks to me like this artist took a short cut when making that profile and in the process hurt the researcher but could be wrong.

109ROAMING · Jan 2, 2009

Now thats a setup! Looking good Mate!

Micdrow · Jan 2, 2009

Ok take at look at this. Pictures are from this web site of a real Me-410 at the British Museum and my confustion with 3U-CC. The emblem on this aircraft is the ZG 26 Horst Wessel which makes sense to me because it belongs to ZG 26

Me410 Walkaround Index page.

Now the confustion. Your profile shows a wasp on the nose. I beleive that the wasp belongs to ZG 1. Yet both aircraft carry the same code. Ive seen museum painted aircraft wrong and Ive seen profiles done wrong. Question is which is wrong here. Bottom photo from the book The Sting of the Luftwaffe by John Vasco.

Comments Welcome!!!!

Maximowitz · Jan 2, 2009

For a start:
^^

It's actually at the RAF Museum in Cosford.

Captured at Vaerlose, Denmark while serving with Seenotgruppe 80 and fitted with Fug200 Hohentwiel anti shipping radar.

It was originally serving with 2/ZG26 with the codes 3U + AK

Erich · Jan 2, 2009

Mic the yellow-jacket/wasp was I./ZG 26's emblem, think I have war-time pic of 3u+CC

also it proves once again with the 5cm Bk model that profiles are just an artist version not necessarily correct if available pics are not in the artists hands. now the earlier 3u+CC may well have been a 2cm armed cannon job that is most probably fact before it was shot down or trashed and a newer 5cm up-cannon version was born.
the later units with 5cm in the fall of 44 were used agasint the Soviets on ground attack missions.

also Tratts machine a U2 if it was may have had 8 20mm's !

Njaco · Jan 2, 2009

Mic the yellow-jacket/wasp was I./ZG 26's emblem, think I have war-time pic of 3u+CC

I think so also - I'm not going to use that but stick with the yellow clogs on the cowlings.

also it proves once again with the 5cm Bk model that profiles are just an artist version not necessarily correct

The rear canopy is also missing in that pic - not refected on the profiles. It was a HA recon plane so markings may not be what I'm after here.

also Tratts machine a U2 if it was may have had 8 20mm's !

and this is where I'm starting to really get *%7*^$678^$!!!! With the cockpit almost complete except for paint and such I was going to start on the fuselage but I need to be correct in the gun arragements. And it gets confused! The A-1/U2 had extra 20mm 151/20 cannons in the bomb bay. But that makes 4 20mm with 2 7.9mm MGs. Now the site Mic posted has what they are calling a A-1/U2 but the extra 20mm gun ports are faired over! UUgghhh!

Micdrow · Jan 2, 2009

Erich said:
Mic the yellow-jacket/wasp was I./ZG 26's emblem, think I have war-time pic of 3u+CC

Hi guys, Ive got plenty of pictures of this aircraft. Just none of the nose that I can find. Its to bad we cant find even one picture of the aircraft Njaco needs for the model.

Lucky13 · Jan 2, 2009

Try these for size Chris....as inspiration.
Messerschmitt Me 410B by Emanuele Pravata (Revell 1/48.)

Messerschmitt Me 410B by Bob Aikens (ProModeler 1/48.)

Me410 Walkaround Index page.

Lucky13 · Jan 2, 2009

....and another one: Messerschmitt Me 410 B by Dave Aungst (ProModeler 1/48.)

Micdrow · Jan 2, 2009

Lucky13 said:
Try these for size Chris....as inspiration.
Messerschmitt Me 410B by Emanuele Pravata (Revell 1/48.)

Messerschmitt Me 410B by Bob Aikens (ProModeler 1/48.)

Me410 Walkaround Index page.

Nice try Lucky but if you look through all the threads two of three of this have been posted.

Lucky13 · Jan 2, 2009

D-OH!

Done : Major Tratt's Me410A-1/U2/R4: Gruppe Build

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