Efficacy of the Me262 as a schnellbomber

[wiking85]

Historically the Me262A2 bomber version was capable of handling up to two 500kg bombs and still maintain speeds over that of the Ar234 with a similar bomb load (i.e. in excess of 450mph), though with a shorter range. What was its accuracy in the role of fast bomber? I know that its ground attack configuration did not result in much success, but as a level bomber hitting fixed targets like supply dumps, air fields, and logistic hubs near its top speed was it a reasonably accurate bomber?

 

[bada]

accuracy on the 262A2 ? what accuracy?!?!
The A2a/u2 would be another story in accuracy as it was dedicated for bombing.

 

[davebender]

Most WWII era fighter bombers lacked proper bomb sights which made for poor bombing accuracy. Make the fighter aircraft faster and accuracy will be even worse. Area weapons such as cluster bombs and napalm are about all it would be good for.

BTW, who in his right mind would waste Me-262s in this role when American heavy bombers were more numerous then stars in the sky?

 

[Procrastintor]

Hitler! Couldn't tell a bomber from a fighter apparently.

 

[wiking85]

Most WWII era fighter bombers lacked proper bomb sights which made for poor bombing accuracy. Make the fighter aircraft faster and accuracy will be even worse. Area weapons such as cluster bombs and napalm are about all it would be good for.

BTW, who in his right mind would waste Me-262s in this role when American heavy bombers were more numerous then stars in the sky?

Considering that Hitler ordered it as a fighter-bomber first and that several units actually used it in that role, there is historical precedent.

 

[Gixxerman]

I wonder.
Having seen footage of the density of allied shipping on D-day, perhaps the idea of a very fast (for its day) fighter bomber, to pierce the fighter defensive screens, attacking with the 500kg bomb he (Hitler) is said to have demanded, might have had merit, even with the inherent inaccuracies?
Given they got them to carry 2x500kg bombs then 2x500kg bombs might be even more useful to Germany on that day?
I know range and I expect moving such new high tech to French fields would have been a major hurdle for various reasons (not forgetting the battering German facilities got in France prior to D-day).

But everything I've seen to date says the Me262 as a fighter bomber was a dire flop....even the dedicated Ar234 bomber was hardly a shining success (although a superb reconnaissance platform, by all accounts)....all of which is not really much of a surprise considering the environment they were supposed to operate in.

 

[wiking85]

I wonder.
Having seen footage of the density of allied shipping on D-day, perhaps the idea of a very fast (for its day) fighter bomber, to pierce the fighter defensive screens, attacking with the 500kg bomb he (Hitler) is said to have demanded, might have had merit, even with the inherent inaccuracies?
Given they got them to carry 2x500kg bombs then 2x500kg bombs might be even more useful to Germany on that day?
I know range and I expect moving such new high tech to French fields would have been a major hurdle for various reasons (not forgetting the battering German facilities got in France prior to D-day).

But everything I've seen to date says the Me262 as a fighter bomber was a dire flop....even the dedicated Ar234 bomber was hardly a shining success (although a superb reconnaissance platform, by all accounts)....all of which is not really much of a surprise considering the environment they were supposed to operate in.

AFAIK the German jets failed at precise bombing, as the Me262 was used as a ground attack aircraft, while the Ar234 was expected to hit pinpoint targets like bridges. That was understandably a failure. Now I'm talking about bigger stationary targets like supply dumps, towns with rail hubs, and ports, rather than small targets like tanks or bridges.

 

[Milosh]

The density of the Normandy bridgehead it wouldn't be to hard to hit something dropped from a Me262. Now if the rack that carried 4 x 50kg x 2 could be fitted .......

 

[GrauGeist]

During the Ardennes Offensive, the Ar234 was used to good success at hitting targets like rail switchyards as weather permitted.

As far as the Me262A-1 airframe was concerned, it wasn't designed to carry such weight forward of it's CoG, that's why the nose armament was reduced from four Mk108 to two Mk108 to compensate. It was used with little success in it's bombing role while attached with 1./Kg54 during D-Day...

It most likely would have been far more effective in a Ground Attack role if using the R4m wing-mounted rockets.

 

[nuuumannn]

Me 262s carried out attacks on British forward bases in late 1944 carrying anti personnel bombs, which although did only marginal damage, still made holes in the runways, injured people and put aircraft out of action. The consensus was that the British had no defence apart from firing wildly in their direction with AA as they flew over. By the time any aircraft got airborne the '262s were long gone. The attacks were demoralising as little could be done to prevent them. Radar installations around a few of the fields were able to detect the 262s because of their high speeds and if they were spotted, Tempests were sent up to meet them, often in vain as the 262s had sped away.

One thing I've read is that the 262's lack of suitable armament for the GA role was a big hindrance, its Mk 108 cannon were too slow firing to be real effective and the bombs used were not big enough to do anything but light damage.

 

[pattern14]

The Me 262 was simply not designed as a fighter bomber, and the Ar234 was concieved as a recon plane, which it performed at very well. The "B" version was evolved as a light bomber, and achieved limited success in this pioneering role. Apart from the obvious overwhelming odds, the Luftwaffe jets had to deal with their own tactical mis-management.

 

[Mangrove]

Most WWII era fighter bombers lacked proper bomb sights which made for poor bombing accuracy. Make the fighter aircraft faster and accuracy will be even worse. Area weapons such as cluster bombs and napalm are about all it would be good for.

This was hardly the case. Finnish pilots flying Bf 109 (using the Revi sight to aim) could score hits within 20 meters from a same size target with a few weeks of practice. This was deemed accurate enough for attacking small patrol vessels in the Gulf of Finland. I also have a copy of a German training manual written by the FW-190 pilots of the 14.(Jabo)/JG 5 in 1943. It claims that hits within 1-5 meters from vessels are quite possible, while diving c. 800 km/h.

 

[cimmex]

I read once that bombing with the revi for aiming you need a shallow dive. This was not possible with the Me 262 because you will get too fast and you'll above the stress limits of the plane. Horizontal bombing will not work because the pilot could not see the ground from the cockpit. So a special bombing version was built with a Plexiglas nose for the bombing aimer.
cimmex

 

[Mangrove]

I read once that bombing with the revi for aiming you need a shallow dive. This was not possible with the Me 262 because you will get too fast and you'll above the stress limits of the plane.

The German manual I quoted claims the best attack angle for FW-190 against shipping is around between 30 and 50 degrees. A Finnish Jabo manual for Bf 109 recommends 45 degree angle.

 

[awack]

Me 262s carried out attacks on British forward bases in late 1944 carrying anti personnel bombs, which although did only marginal damage, still made holes in the runways, injured people and put aircraft out of action. The consensus was that the British had no defence apart from firing wildly in their direction with AA as they flew over. By the time any aircraft got airborne the '262s were long gone. The attacks were demoralising as little could be done to prevent them. Radar installations around a few of the fields were able to detect the 262s because of their high speeds and if they were spotted, Tempests were sent up to meet them, often in vain as the 262s had sped away.

One thing I've read is that the 262's lack of suitable armament for the GA role was a big hindrance, its Mk 108 cannon were too slow firing to be real effective and the bombs used were not big enough to do anything but light damage.

I read a tempest pilots account on how they would wait in their cockpits because of the me 262, it was interesting in how the Tempest were able to knock Luftwaffe piston engine fighter bombers out of the sky like they were wingless flies, but the Tempest pilot or no one he knew(again who he knew) ever got a me 262, but a Tempest was shot down by a me 262 on one of these missions, im guessing from what ive read here that the me 262 wasn't very effective in this role though.

About the mk 108 cannons, again ive read two luftwaffe pilot accounts on this matter, they both fond the mk 108s very effective on ground targets...the most resent account involved a Fw 190 pilot who had just transferred to a me 262, he talked about how absolutely devastating the cannon were on a Russian supply convoy.

 

[Civettone]

I read once that bombing with the revi for aiming you need a shallow dive. This was not possible with the Me 262 because you will get too fast and you'll above the stress limits of the plane.

No, a shallow dive would be no problem at all. Diving 45 degrees at full power is another issue.


Kris

 

[cimmex]

don't forget there is no prop which works as dive brake and the heavy bomb load can accelerate the plane even at low throttle beyond the limits during a flat dive.
cimmex

 

[FLYBOYJ]

No, a shallow dive would be no problem at all. Diving 45 degrees at full power is another issue.


Kris

According to the flight manual developed by the AAF during -262 evaluation, the aircraft could dive safely between 20 and 30 degrees. It does talk about compressibility as the aircraft approaches the speed of sound.

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/Me262/262PilotHandbook.pdf

Link to German texts...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/me-262-manuals-5134.html#post193588

 

[bobbysocks]

so if attacked by a 262... punch the throttle and the ram the stick forward to a 45+ degree dive.....????

 

[FLYBOYJ]

don't forget there is no prop which works as dive brake and the heavy bomb load can accelerate the plane even at low throttle beyond the limits during a flat dive.
cimmex

That will all depend on how fast and how high you are entering the dive.