F-51 Cavalier tail, When?

[N4521U]

Okay boys,
When did the tall tail and short fin fairing show up? Do we know the serial number for the start of this mod?



I know the F-51 was the Fighter, USAF name for P-51 1947.

Cheers guys.
Bill

 

[Snautzer01]

North American P-51H-5-NA Mustang

 

[Graeme]

 

[N4521U]

Yep, that would be it and where I got the tail detail.
And have learned it was the H model that had the Cavalier tail.......

Now my Next question would be how do we find the serials of CALIF NG mustangs with the 194 Sqn?
Or can we?

 

[mjfur]

The P-51H-5 was designed with a tall tail. It's a completely different airframe from the P-51D.
The "Cavalier tail" was a modification for the P-51D that was post-war and post P-51H-5.
Cavalier Mustang - Wikipedia

 

[Mustangtmg]

The P-51H was designed with a tall tail. It's a completely different airframe from the P-51D.
The "Cavalier tail" was a modification for the P-51D that was post-war and post P-51H.
Cavalier Mustang - Wikipedia

The first sentence is not entirely correct: the first 20 P-51Hs had tail surfaces about the same height as the Mustangs that preceded it.
The second sentence is true and worth everyone paying attention to.
The third sentence not so true: the taller vertical tail that was on the Cavalier Mustangs was NOT the first Mustang to which this tall tail was added. The Mustang in the photos below was flown with what some folks call a "Cavalier Tail" - but the photos clearly show a P-51B, test-flown by NACA in 1945. NACA had a P-51D (maybe two) with the same basic tall tail. The modification was rather "easy." They took of the normal tail cap and replaced it with a taller, 14" cap, which gave it the taller height. The later "Cavalier tail" was probably an exact copy of the ones of which I speak, a more than 10 yrs earlier than Cavalier even came into existence. FYI, the "strange-looking" cuffs on the wings were involved in NACA tests of some other aerodynamic device or whatEVER...

 

[mjfur]

The first sentence is not entirely correct: the first 20 P-51Hs had tail surfaces about the same height as the Mustangs that preceded it.
The second sentence is true and worth everyone paying attention to.
The third sentence not so true: the taller vertical tail that was on the Cavalier Mustangs was NOT the first Mustang to which this tall tail was added. The Mustang in the photos below was flown with what some folks call a "Cavalier Tail" - but the photos clearly show a P-51B, test-flown by NACA in 1945. NACA had a P-51D (maybe two) with the same basic tall tail. The modification was rather "easy." They took of the normal tail cap and replaced it with a taller, 14" cap, which gave it the taller height. The later "Cavalier tail" was probably an exact copy of the ones of which I speak, a more than 10 yrs earlier than Cavalier even came into existence. FYI, the "strange-looking" cuffs on the wings were involved in NACA tests of some other aerodynamic device or whatEVER...

Yes, while a few aircraft experimented with a tall tail in 1945, it did not make it into production for the B, C or D and no one called it the Cavalier tail until after Cavalier came about. I also didn't say that the Cavalier tall tail was the first to appear on Mustangs. It was obvious (to me at least) what the O.P. was referring to when he titled the thread "F-51 Cavalier Tail, When?".
Mystery Archives 2013 - NasaCRgis (scroll down)

 

[N4521U]

Exackly right,
From what has been posted here has directed me in another direction in my searches,
Where it has lead me I have learned just That. It was Cavalier who put the tall tail on civilian versions for private sale.
This tail was only adopted when the redesigned version of the P-51 as the H was put into production never to see combat other than Escort, I believe.
The H should never to be confused with the next generation of the D airframe.
So now I have my build in order.
The end!
Thanks guys.

 

[EDFN]

I got a cardboard kit of a Cavalier Mustang USAF chase plane in my stash, waiting to be built. Got it from here: Paper Model Shop Aviation Paper Models - P51 MUSTANG USA Please scroll down almost to the bottom of the page. Some Cavalier Mustangs had tip tanks and I wonder if the enlarged vertical tail surfaces were necessary to offset some detrimental effects the tip tanks may have had on lateral stability. Could this be true?

 

[Graeme]

I wonder if the enlarged vertical tail surfaces were necessary to offset some detrimental effects the tip tanks may have had on lateral stability. Could this be true?

Below are two Cavalier F-51D Mustangs with the "tall" tails. According to Jane's, the tail was increased (I'm assuming compared to the original P-51D fin height) by 14"(350 mm) to "improve stall characteristics and provide a more stable gun platform".
I'm assuming again that the tip-tanked Cavalier Mustang II version incorporated the same tail?.
And I'm not sure if the Cavalier tail is the same height as the P-51H tail?

 

[EDFN]

Graeme : Thank you for the picture. What a great shot! Yepp, the tail looks like the one of the model I got.
I have not yet looked into the P / F-51H more deeply, preferring the classic lines of the A to D models. Will do as soon as possible.