F4F wildcat Vs. Me 109

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Vassili Zaitzev, Mar 9, 2006.

  1. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    If the F4F-3 or F4F-4 went into combat against a 109. who do you think would come out the victor?
     
  2. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Here's combat from a FM-2..

    http://ww2aircraft.net/forum/about1239.html&highlight=

    "On 26 March 1945, in a last action, FM-2's from 882 Squadron
    Lieut Comdr. GAM Flood, RNVR) off Searcher, escorting a flight of
    Avengers along the coast of Norway, was attacked by a flight of
    eight III Gruppe JG 5 Me-109Gs. The Wildcats (now called
    “Wildcat” instead of “Martlet” as the FAA adopts the USN names
    for carrier aircraft) shot down four of the Me-109Gs at a cost of
    one Wildcat damaged. A fifth 109 was claimed as damaged."
     
  3. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    But do the german loss's for that day agree with the RN claims?
     
  4. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    As far as I know - Yep!!!
     
  5. crowdpleaser

    crowdpleaser New Member

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    they might have just been lucky maybe the weather sucked! 8)
     
  6. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    As near as can be determined from available Luftwaffe loss lists, there were three 109’s lost for sure, werk# 412398 (Fw. Hermannn Jaeger), #782139 (Uffz. Gottfried Rösch), and #782270 (Fw. Heinrich Dreisbach). One other 109 crashed, (pilot not listed) on landing, however the information available does not indicate if the crash was due to pilot error or from battle damage. Damage to this airplane was noted as 25%. Available Luftwaffe credit lists show no claims from this action.

    Why would they need any special luck or crappy weather? Because the results don't fit the mold? Nonsense.

    Rich
     
  7. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    I bet a F6F vs -109 fight would be interesting.
     
  8. Soren

    Soren Banned

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    Maybe someone should look up the loss record's for that day ?

    Wouldn't surprise me if its true though, considering the kind of lads who were flying 109's by then... Poor kids...

    Back to topic:

    The 109 no doubt...
     
  9. Soren

    Soren Banned

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    Good info Leonard.
     
  10. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    The only fighter-to-fighter FAA F6F action took place in May 1944. On 8 May, F6F's from the Fleet Air Arm's No. 800 Squadron (Lieut. Comdr. SJ Hall, DSC, RN), off HMS Emperor, while escorting a flight of Barracudas were jumped a mixed group of Me-109's and FW-190's. Two F6F's were lost, one, probably, to anti-aircraft fire (one source indicates that both F6Fs were lost in a mid-air collision, not to any German fire of any kind); the RN pilots were creditied with 2 Me-109's and one FW-190. Available Luftwaffe loss listings show three Me-109Gs lost in this action, werk# 14697 (Ofw. Kurt), 10347 (Uffz. Brettin), and unknown # (Fw. Horst). On the Luftwaffe side, Uffz. Hallstick claimed two F6Fs and Lieut. Prenzler claimed one.

    Rich
     
  11. Soren

    Soren Banned

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    Was Hallstick's and Prenzerl's claims confirmed by the OKL ?
     
  12. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Haven't the slightest idea. Sifted the data from one of those big lists of Luftwaffe victories that are floating around out there. My guess is probably, but you know how it goes, credits and actuals don't always match.
     
  13. Soren

    Soren Banned

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    True...

    I doubt they were confirmed though, considering all the witnesses that had to be present and the amount of paper work that had to be done. But I'll research it and see if I can find the answer.
     
  14. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    The F4F actally had a better diving speed and was more maneuvable than the -109...
     
  15. book1182

    book1182 Member

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    That's a good question. I would have to go with the F4F for the same reasons that I would go with it over a Zero. Not saying that the Me-109 and Zero were the same but they show some of the same qualities and what made the Zero better than the F4F. i.e. rate of roll, turning circle, and ability to climb. These would probably be less in the Me-109 except climb. The F4F would still be stronger, better team tactics, and better fire power.
     
  16. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Excellent info RL....
     
  17. loomaluftwaffe

    loomaluftwaffe Active Member

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    German pilots in 1945 were n00bs with an hour of training
     
  18. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    No they werent... Many of the pilots were instructor pilots with many hours in the cockpit...
     
  19. delcyros

    delcyros Well-Known Member

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    Can agree with this with the exception of team tactics. This is a factor which has nothing to do with the design but with the skill and fighter doctrines of the pilots involved. Your statement imply that the 109- Luftwaffe fighter doctrines were as crap as those of the zeros (which depended so much on turning dogfight). To this I disagree. 109- fighter pilots are reputated for excellent team tactics including the introduction of Rotte. The tactics made them such a good air superiority fighter, not the statistics.
    Most 109- versions are considerably faster than the F4F and since the 109- accelerates in horizontal and climb much better than the F4F, I have no idea what plane takes on more speed faster in a dive. Wouldn´t be to sure that this goes to the F4F.
    The F4F is undoubtly more rugged and has a more balanced armement. It probably also has a better high speed handling but maybe someone else can help out here with details.
    Cheers!
     
  20. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    I'm looking for the data but somewhere there is a comparison of the F4F-3 to the Me-109E. In that airticle it cited the -109 with the speed and climb advantage, it spoke of the F4F being more maneuvable and having a greater dive speed (becuase of it's weight?). Anyway, I'm sure this article will turn up....
     
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