F4U vs FW190
- Thread starter Zsnark
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Just type F4U vs. FW190. There may be more than you asked for.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
No argument there.
Thumpalumpacus
1st Lieutenant
There's a lot of good reading about the matchup here.
- Thread starter
- #7
Hey, people, we are dealing with hindsight. And not allowing for then current needs and conditions. I am looking for expert hopefully non biased opinions about how a faceoff between the FW190 and the Corsair might happen. The confrontation never happened but what if?!
Gimme opinions, please. And why your choice.
Thanks,
Airplane Cookoos
Be well, Zsnark
Gimme opinions, please. And why your choice.
Thanks,
Airplane Cookoos
Be well, Zsnark
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Fw190A would have had the upper hand in a turning fight at lower altitudes but the F4U would have had the advantage at higher altitudes.
They both possessed good firepower and were highly maneuverable, but their strengths lie in the other's weaknesses.
They both possessed good firepower and were highly maneuverable, but their strengths lie in the other's weaknesses.
wuzak
Captain
The F4U-1 didn't have much advantage over the Fw 190A in altitude performance. They had similar critical altitudes.
It didnt happen but could have. Corsairs were used in Operation Tungsten (Attack on Tirpitz Apr 1944) although they didnt meet any opposition, the LW did have planes in the area. Operation Tungsten - Wikipedia
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I thought I read somewhere (here most likely) that FAA Corsairs or Hellcats did tangle with LW fighters.
Admiral Beez
1st Lieutenant
A good vid here
Barrett
Senior Airman
Eric Brown (who certainly was in a position to know) wrote numerous What If scenarios in his excellent "Duels in the Sky." In fact, I think it featured an F4U and 190 on the cover.
Dawncaster
Airman 1st Class
- 110
- Dec 23, 2013
According to Naval Air Fighting Development Unit report dated 19 February 1944 in BuAer VF4U1 file, forwarded by the US Naval Air Attache, The British, who were using the Corsair in European waters, evaluated it against a captured German Fw 190 in February 1944. At 11,000ft both aircraft were about as fast, but the German fighter was 20mph faster at 17,000ft. By 21,000ft both aircraft were again at parity and above 21,000ft the Corsair gained spead until at 30,000ft it was about 35mph faster. In climb there was little to choose up to 5000ft, the German fighter being slightly superior; between 5000 and 15,000ft it was 30 seconds faster and up to 25,000ft it was 1 minute 40 seconds faster. The Corsair could turn within the Fw 190 with ease; when the Fw-190 started on the tail of the Corsair the positions were reversed in just over one and a half complete turns. However, the Fw-190 rolled considerably faster and could therefore reverse a turn so quickly that the Corsair could not follow it. There was little to choose between the two in a dive, the Corsair being slightly faster. However, at the height involved the Corsair was using three-quarters power and the FW half-power. The report concluded that apart from superiority in a turning dog fight (in which enemy pilots would seldom if ever engage), the only real advantage enjoyed by the Corsair (except at high altitude) was its outstandingly good climb after a dive. A Corsair encountering an Fw 190 should therefore make every effort to attack from above and to maintain height superiority by zooming after the attack. If jumped, the Corsair would have to evade by turning as tightly as possible and it would have very little chance of seizing the initiative from the Fw 190.
Referance - Fighters over the Fleet by Norman Friedman
Referance - Fighters over the Fleet by Norman Friedman
I would have thought the F4U would have had a tighter turning circle to be honest, with the Fw 190 having a considerably greater rate of climb. Both planes had good roll-rates but the F4U strikes me as probably being a bit slower. Looking at D Dawncaster 's post above, it appears that the turning circle is apparently considerably better for the F4U (the F4U also had maneuvering flaps). The climb-rate figures do seem to be a bit of a surprise as I would not have thought steady-state climb-rates would have been remotely similar even at low altitudes, though I could imagine the F4U having good zoom climb performance.
I do find the diving figures surprising as, while I wouldn't be surprised if the F4U would accelerate well in a dive, the Fw 190 was good to 0.75 mach in dives whereas mach effects started to take hold of the F4U by around 0.73. When it comes to dive-acceleration, if I recall, the P-51 accelerated better than the F4U and the P-47 was slightly better to the P-51 and the P-47 and Focke Wulf was pretty close in dives. If I recall, it would initially pull away before the Thunderbolt would start to gain on it.
Admiral Beez
1st Lieutenant
I would add to this, the Corsair's ability to take massive punishment and still get its pilot home.
glennasher
Senior Airman
US Navy Hellcats participated in the invasion of Southern France, and outscored the P-38s of the 15th AF out of Italy (as per Barrett Tillman's book about the 15th AF).
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
FAA Corsairs and Hellcats were active in the north of Europe, the Germans even captured a Corsair in Norway.
But they didn't seem to see as much action as RAF types engaged over continental Europe.
But they didn't seem to see as much action as RAF types engaged over continental Europe.
Really? That's quite fascinating.
GrumpyOldCrewChief
Airman 1st Class
I can't get links to work, but go to YouTube, and look up the "Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles" channel. He does wonderful, in-depth descriptions of LOTS of things, including this very subject.
Backs up his opinions with detailed, primary source documents. Lots of fun to be had, going down that rabbit hole...
Backs up his opinions with detailed, primary source documents. Lots of fun to be had, going down that rabbit hole...
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