F4U vs. P-51 essay

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by magnocain, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. magnocain

    magnocain Member

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    This is an essay that I wrote in school for "persuasive writing". If you can please give me some true but still slanted facts on this topic (with an explanation if possible). Also please remember that only five people knew that I was talking about planes (one knew it was about WW2 planes). Remember I wrote for a simple audience.

    (gulp) here it is...

    Corsair vs. Mustang


    The F4U Corsair is a better airplane than the P-51 Mustang. This may seem like an odd topic to choose, but it is important to me. Even though the F4U was better, the Mustang is liked better because of its glamorous role in World War Two. The Corsair had better performance than the P-51. The Corsair had more roles than the Mustang. The Corsair could take off from a carrier, unlike the Mustang. The Mustang had the highly glamorous and romanticized duty of escorting the mighty B-17’s of the 8th Air force over Nazi Germany. It can be compared to the knights of Rohan charging down the hill into battle with the Urik-kai army, rescuing the heroes and saving the day. The Corsair, however, was more suited for the less important role of fighting Imperial Japan in the pacific. That can be compared to walking through a Georgian swamp to find crawdads for supper.
    The Corsair had better performance than the Mustang. The Corsair could go 450 miles per hour to the Mustang’s 430. The Corsair could carry 4000 pounds of bombs to 2000. For every Corsair lost in combat, 11 enemy planes were destroyed, for an 11:1 combat ratio. The mustang only had a 6:1 combat ratio.
    One of the simplest reasons for the common misconception of the Mustang’s superiority, however, is that, well, the Mustang is prettier.
    That is a simple explanation for the superiority of the F4U over the P-51. Even though the mustang was more highly regarded, the corsair performed better, and could do more things.

    Thank you for your time.
     
  2. wilbur1

    wilbur1 Active Member

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    Not bad straight to the point but you didnt mention that it could out manouver a stang
     
  3. wilbur1

    wilbur1 Active Member

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    spelled that wrong sorry
     
  4. magnocain

    magnocain Member

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  5. wilbur1

    wilbur1 Active Member

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    I dont know what that means sorry
     
  6. magnocain

    magnocain Member

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    woops...it is tyvm
    thank you very much
     
  7. wilbur1

    wilbur1 Active Member

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    Oh ok your very welcome :D
     
  8. slaterat

    slaterat Member

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    The essay is a little choppy, what age group are you writing for? The last sentence of each paregraph should be the topic sentence or a conclusion of that paragraph. Heres how I would reorganize your essay.

    intro
    -The general perceptions of the 2 planes
    - your comparisn of the euro/Jap theatres
    -most believe the P51 is better
    - this is wrong the F4U is better

    2nd paragraph
    compare performance of the two planes
    F4U -has better performance
    -more versatile
    - better k/d ratio

    3rd paragraph
    close with the same paragragh in your first edit


    Most of what you wrote is pretty good, just reorganize it abit to make your point stronger.


    Slaterat
     
  9. magnocain

    magnocain Member

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    thank you for the advice
     
  10. slaterat

    slaterat Member

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    np hope it helps.

    Slaterat
     
  11. Screaming Eagle

    Screaming Eagle Active Member

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    what mark did you end up getting magnocain?
     
  12. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    I wonder what the loss rate for the Corsair would be if it had to fight the far more deadly and dangerous pilots and aircraft of the LW?
     
  13. drgondog

    drgondog Well-Known Member

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    Always a great question
    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/marshall/SUMMARY_OF_COMBAT_OPERATIONS.pdf

    Not claiming this is infallable but it is well researched and the research/findings boundary conditions for conlusions are pretty clear.

    At least there is context for ratio's.

    Having said this, your points are dead on Syscom. How do you compare when mission, role, threat and application are completely different - and against different equipped adversaries?

    I would probably select a Corsair -4 or -5 against the Mustang if the choice was one, and one only against say the 51H if I could only have one fighter for all theatres and missions - but no way was the Corsair a clear 'out perform' versus 51H in all the relevant comparisons... for a similar point in development.. ditto F4U-1 versus P-51B.
     
  14. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    I agree that you hit some of the top points, but your sentence structure is choppy. Seems like they are not complete sentences.

    When you say for school, I'm guessing it's for high school? I think you could make it flow a bit better.
     
  15. magnocain

    magnocain Member

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    Thanks guys.
    Yes, high school. I had a more complex essay but I simplified it down.
    A B- I think...
     
  16. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

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    I've often wondered the same thing. The pilots would adopt strategies and tactics that help out the F4U. I'm sure the corsair would account well for itself.

    Certainly, it wouldn't fair any worse then the P-47 which carved a very important niche.

    .
     
  17. kool kitty89

    kool kitty89 Well-Known Member

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    The P-51 could operate from a carrier:

    A P-51H (44-64420) was borrowed by the US Navy In August of 1945 for trials to determine the type's suitability as a carrier-based fighter. The earlier P-51D had been deemed to be unsuitable because of the lack of adequate rudder control at low speeds, especially at high angles of attack. The tests proved that the P-51H did indeed provide adeuqte rudder control, but since the war was already over, the possibility of a carrier-based P-51H was not considered any further. A second P-51H 44-64192 was acquired by the Navy in 1948 for tests of various aerofoil shapes at transonic speeds at the Grumman Aircraft Corporation. While in Navy service, the plane became BuNo 09064. After the tests were over in 1952, the plane was transferred to the Air National Guard.


    The P-47 could take more damage (the Corsair had voulnerable oil coolers and wooden/fabric areas on most models) and had a higher critical dive speed and aerodynamicly cleaner design. The P-47 had all metal control surfaces with "blunt nosed" ailerons which gave excelent high speed control performance. (critical Mach of >.82) It had a heavier armament and ammo load. The P-47 had better visibillity over its shorter nose and better overall visibillity with a bubbletop canopy at a slight expense to piot protection. (about equal with a malcolm hood)

    The F4U could carry 2000 lbs more bombs and had better climb at most altitudes. The F4U could out-turn both the P-51 and P-47 with it's thick high-lift wing. The P-47 could disengage at will in a dive-- except below 10,000 ft. (when there wasn't enough altitude)


    I perfer both craft to the P-51 due to durrabillity and overall versitility and both could range about as far as the P-51D (2000+ miles maximum) with max external fuel -albeit they needed ~50% more than the Mustang- the P-47D-25 could carry a maximum fuel load of 780 US gallons (with 2x 150 gal and 1x 110 gal droptank) for a range of 2,100 miles with a 10.2 hour endurance. (206 mph and an escort radius of ~900 miles with ~30 min of combat)

    See: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47-tactical-chart.jpg for the P-47's range

    I don't have figures for the F4U's maximum range.

    Also here's another essay on the F4U: Chance Vought F4U-4 Corsair
     
  18. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    Didnt the Corsair have its best performance figures below 25,000 ft while the P47 and P51 have its best performance above that altitude?
     
  19. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    I believe that's correct Sys.

    So, you got a B. That's ok. I think we can all live with that. :)
     
  20. kool kitty89

    kool kitty89 Well-Known Member

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    The P-51D had best (speed) performance at ~25,000 ft iirc as well and the P-47C and early D wich had a lower rev limit on their turbos (~18,000 rpm).

    It should also be noted that the P-47's wing pylons cut 15 mph off the top speed (though early pylons cut up to 45 mph!!! though these weren't introduced on production models) but the added load and range these provided was well worth it. The P-51's wing racks cut only ~10 mph off top speed)

    One other disadvantage of the P-51 was that it looked much more like LW fighters than any other US or RAF fighter.


    It should also be noted that the P-47D's engine (both 2800-63 and 59 being virtualy identical) were cleared for 2,600 hp with 70" Hg (2,535 at 65" max climb) WEP at 2,700 rpm with 100/150 grade fuel and water-injection, Bringing top speed up to 444 mph at 23,500 ft (critical altitude for 70" boost) and a max climb of 3280 ft/min at 10,000 ft with 65" at 13,230 lbs. Up from 3100 ft/min with 56" giving 2,300 hp.

    SEE http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/p-47-66inch.jpg

    and P-47 Performance Tests
     
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