Falklands War Part 2

[comiso90]

if it seems unthinkable...well it was unthinkable in 1981 too!

The English are still threatening Argentina. Things have changed. We are no longer in 1982," he warned. "If conflict breaks out, be sure Argentina will not be alone like it was back then."

Latin America backs Argentina as Britain begins Falklands oil quest - contains video


Do Central, South American countries practice joint war games? Would a outcome in 2010 be any different? Could Britain win against a South American alliance? I think the US would have to stay out of it.

Argentina proved that advanced missiles can be a threat to a modern Navy.. i doubt their brave aviators would make the same mistake this time around (poorly fused, old iron bombs).

Can Britain send forces there w/o impacting middle east deployments?

.

 

[Erich]

you seriously think the Argentinians are ready for another butt kicking ? ........ maybe they are.

 

[comiso90]

you seriously think the Argentinians are ready for another butt kicking ? ........ maybe they are.

Distractions are the best friend of failing politicians and this time Argentina may have Venezuela on its side too.

Maybe Britain is spread too thin right now? Maybe Argentina has been stockpiling exocets (or whatever is used now). It may be a good time to challenge them.

.

 

[timshatz]

If the Argentinians can get this one to the level of being a conflict between S. America and European Colonialist, they have a chance. Would need to pull more countries in on their side and for most of the counties in SA, but there isn't anything in it for them.

By the same token, I don't think the British Navy is in the same shape as it was during the Cold War. Been downsized a bit.

I just have trouble seeing this as a big time shooting war and not a diplomatic war.

The question is really going to be about Oil, If they find a lot of it in the area around the Falklands, the stakes go up exponentially.

 

[comiso90]

The question is really going to be about Oil, If they find a lot of it in the area around the Falklands, the stakes go up exponentially.

Maybe Exxon will own a surplus aircraft carrier someday!

.

 

[Colin1]

By the same token, I don't think the British Navy is in the same shape as it was during the Cold War. Been downsized a bit...

It's a big point
In 1982 the invasion of the Falklands took everyone by surprise. Yet we put together a task force, sailed 8,000 miles around the globe and set to against an enemy that had planned, executed and had time to dig in and consolidate its gains on a small, seemingly inconsequential island, and we did it simply because the inhabitants said "Hey, we're British subjects".

We spanked them.

That was a good time to be a British serviceman, the roll-out of the Falklands operation was impressive, it showed that part of the world who plotted to harm our interests or undermine us that we could do impressive things. We made silly mistakes that cost us material assets and servicemens lives but overall, it was close to text book.

These days the RN is smaller, the Army is smaller and the RAF is smaller. We're stretched in Afghanistan by these same smaller numbers and more restrained budgets, let alone another sizeable campaign on the other side of the world. On the upside, we have a far more potent presence on the islands now than we did back then.

I'm not concerned by the rabid barking of Chavez, he talks a big fight with the US and now he's talking a big fight with us (someone's obviously bought him an atlas for his birthday) but getting into a scrap that's costing him losses might just get him tossed in the next elections and I hope he's too stupid to see that. Who else from S America is going to rally to Chavez on behalf of Argentina? Well, we can only wait and see but I'll be surprised if there's any takers.

If Argentina think they can risk another plunge then given the choice between poorly-fused iron bombs and a defensive back line of Harriers, or improved fusing for the iron bombs and a defensive back line of Typhoons, they had a far better chance in 1982.

They could attempt to beach land forces but knowing what British soldiers are like in a guts-in-the-mud firefight, that probably won't go well...

 

[comiso90]

If Argentina think they can risk another plunge then given the choice between poorly-fused iron bombs and a defensive back line of Harriers, or improved fusing for the iron bombs and a defensive back line of Typhoons, they had a far better chance in 1982.

How about the leadership in Britain now?

Was Maggie a "force multiplier" in 82? would English public opinion favor another war?

I would think the Argentines learned their lesson with iron bombs... i'd be surprised if they didnt have at least a few dozen Exocet type missiles by now.


Argentina's Tattered Armed Forces
Infamous for turning its arms against its own people and for the disaster Falklands Islands War, the Argentine military is at a crossroads. President Cristina Kirchner is patching relations with the military as it remains above the economic fray.
http://www.dailyestimate.com/article.asp?id=19255

.

 

[Colin1]

How about the leadership in Britain now?

Was Maggie a "force multiplier" in 82? would English public opinion favor another war?

I would think the Argentines learned their lesson with iron bombs... i'd be surprised if they didnt have at least a few dozen Exocet type missiles by now.

Maggie was a leader you could rally behind
I didn't realise that then, I was never that politically minded but compare and contrast with the jackasses running the country now. If you're a serviceman, you go to war if you're so instructed but there's a difference between honouring your obligations, and being inspired to defend what's yours.

Tough call on public opinion but I think it's a different scenario to Afghanistan; we're in somebody else's country there, trying to do the honourable thing and help them straighten things out. However, if Argentina wants to come ashore on sovereign British soil again, that might just be the trick that did it.

Lobbing range is obviously alot greater with the Exocet but there is still a range they will have to come within. I don't know to be honest, I don't know what the RN's got up its sleeve to counter anti-shipping missiles since the war in '82.

 

[Waynos]

As far as I understand it neither the Super Etendard or its Exocet missiles are in service with the Argentine forces any more. They have had budget cuts too.

What do we have that we didn't in 1982? The Typhoon has been mentioned, but remember also the Sea King ASaC7, the C-17 and the Tristar and VC-10's which, while elderly, are much more effective force multipliers than the Victor was, plus paveway IV, Brimstone and other goodies.

The grave error of retiring the Sea Harrier FA2 from service has been negated in this instance by having the Typhoon down there. As long as they turn up when required.

I really dont think the Argentines are seriously considering a fight, but if they were they would have an entrenched garrison with air cover to overcome this time, before we even started to reinforce it.

Also verbal support from neighbouring countries is one thing, going to war is something else

 

[CharlesBronson]

This topic is the biggest jocke I seen so far in 2010.

you seriously think the Argentinians are ready for another butt kicking ?

better butt kicking that butt ****ing dear erich.

 

[timshatz]

In a sea brawl, the odds, to my mind anyway, go to the British Navy. While it is smaller, so is the Argentinian Force arrayed against it. One thing about socialist (meant as a political party, not a country), they may buy the ships and planes but rarely spend the money for training. That's just not impressive. I gotta believe the Argentinians are not as ramped up as they were in 1982.

To put it another way, both forces have declined but the gap between them has probably gotten wider.

But a lot of other things have changed too. Finding the British task force would probably be easier. Chavez may not have to actively join in, just keep tabs on the Brits from a distance. Further, he doesn't need to send his forces down there per se, they could always be "volunteers".

I doubt the Argentinians will go to war over it though. That one didn't pan out the first time and it probably isn't on the radar. Blockade? Doubt they have the forces to do it effectively. A case in the World Court would probably be the way this one plays out.

 

[comiso90]

This topic is the biggest jocke I seen so far in 2010.
.

it seemed like a joke in 1982!
You obviously have a perspective that typical North Americans dont. How about sharing instead of ridiculing?

The press up here is full of news about Venezuela acting out and insulting the US every chance it gets. It doesnt seem like a joke to me that some South American allies could distract from their own issues by taking advantage of a weaker England and at least attacking the RN units already in the Falklands.


.

 

[Erich]

Charles I am not sure that Argentinians want to do any butt licking either. the whole thing is a sham from the beginning, lets all hope and think you would agree friend that working at the table is far better than what happened over 20 years ago as most of this forum membership was not even born yet nor even remembered the terrible events for both sides at the very young age.......what a crap waste of life. You may think the thread is a joke but reality in this world of this event is not.

v/r E ~ if you find offense in my words apoligiies to you but you can understand what I am trying to say

 

[CharlesBronson]

I dont found offensive any of your words, is just that probably I am a bit touchy because all the bussines sound too ridiculous to me.

it seemed like a joke in 1982!
You obviously have a perspective that typical North Americans dont. How about sharing instead of ridiculing?

Ok, i ll share, the military option are not in the mind of the argentine gov, and I am pretty sure isnt in the table of the British prime minster either.
In fact this Goverment is the one who had had less use for the Armed Forces ever since 1983.

The press up here is full of news about Venezuela acting out and insulting the US every chance it gets. It doesnt seem like a joke to me that some South American allies could distract from their own issues by taking advantage of a weaker England and at least attacking the RN units already in the Falklands.

Fantasy, Who are those alleged south american allies may I ask ?... who ? Venezuela and Argentina ? wrong, there is no military alliance between both countries nothing signed, no one verbal agreement nada, niente.

The only importance that Venezuela have for Argentina is that it become an important market for agricultural and industrial exports since they dont manufacture anything, not even a nail, and we have a lot of agricultural and metallurgical products ( tractors, cars, harvesters, etc)

Chavez is stupid but no stupid enough to attack the Uk.

 

[vikingBerserker]

The war always fascinated me, and the losses with the exception of air assets and prisoners were not that much different. IIRC a good chunk of the Argentinians killed were from their Cruiser that was torpedoed.

It seems as more issues pop up at home or places like Iran, the more rhetoric like this we hear - something to take the mind of the masses off the true problems.

I can see Chavez egging it on but staying in the back ground and he concerns me more then anybody else in South America. That fruitcake cannot leave soon enough for my tastes

 

[comiso90]

Thank you Charles ...

 

[timshatz]

The more I think of it, the more I think this one is going to be settled diplomatically and in the courts. Neither country has the firepower or will to fight for it. Even if oil is found, it will only make the noise more intense.

I could see this thing coming down to an economic split of the monies from the oilfields with the Brits on the Islands staying British. When you get right down to it. both countries are in the hole economically and oil proceeds would help in a big way.

An interesting idea would be something like the Jersey Islands. Or maybe dual citizenship for the peoples of the Falklands. One this is pretty sure, this one is not going away. The Argentinians have a claim on this thing and I think they're figuring out how to work it.

Warfare probably isn't the option they are going to pursue.

 

[comiso90]

As the Ice sheets recede, Denmark and Canada have some contested island too. I bet that will end up in court.

 

[Torch]

Wouldn't it be a thought if Argentina and Britain actually used their talents to produce the oil together as a "corporation", both could share the wealth/benefits without a conflict.

 

[timshatz]

Wouldn't it be a thought if Argentina and Britain actually used their talents to produce the oil together as a "corporation", both could share the wealth/benefits without a conflict.

I think that is what happens up in the North Sea now, or something similar. The oil fields up there have Norway, Denmark and England involved in them. But I don't know the specifics. I was figuring something similar might happen in the case of the Falklands.