Foreigners in BoB

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Arneken, Mar 2, 2008.

  1. Arneken

    Arneken Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Wevelgem,Belgium
    Home Page:
    After the blitz and dunkirk; England was stuffed with foreigners. young men who wanted to do something to revenge the Germans. Some off them wanted to join the groundtroops others wanted to do something in the air.They didn't brought aircrafts with them and where overrun by the luftwaffe in the beginning of the war. How did the RAF solved this in the Battle of Britain ?

    Did they immediatly made squadrons for foreigners? Did foreigners and Englishman fight together in one squadron? Did the RAF refused these pilots who had some training in the fighters off the country the represented ? Or did they had to do some training at first?

    (The first thing I now come up with is the poor condition off the Belgian Airforce who had just a handfull of Hurricanes and Spits in 1940 and flew with outdated planes.)

    I'm pretty sure that some polish pilots served in a "regular" squadron and where known as daredevils because in all weather types they flew to get them some "hun killing-fun", like I once read.

    But what with the Belgians,Dutch,French,Danish,Finnish,... Pilots?

    Most Belgian pilots only saw action after 1940-1941 and most off them in Africa with Blenheims. Some off them got themselves Hurricanes and Spitfires and fought over Europe. Who doesn't know the story of Baron Jean de selys-Longchamps who strafed the gestapo-building in Brussels.

    But now I'm just saying this who have got nothing to do with my questions. So how (is this word with or without the 'w'?) was it with the foreigners in Battle of Britain?

    Many thanks

    Arneken
     
  2. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    3,672
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Video and multi-media communications expert
    Location:
    FL
    Don't for get the Yanks!

    Of the thousands that volunteered, 244 Americans served with the three Eagle Squadrons; 16 Britons acted as Squadron and Flight commanders. The Dieppe Raid was the only occasion that all three Eagle Squadrons saw action operating together.

    Eagle Squadrons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    :salute:

    .
     
  3. Arneken

    Arneken Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Wevelgem,Belgium
    Home Page:
    I did didn't I :oops: 8) Maybe because I already knew about the eagle-squadrons.

    Wasn't it that many off them where registrated as being non-american but as finnish or canadien?
     
  4. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    niagara falls
    Here are the numbers i have
    Australian 56........9 kia
    New Zealand 103..... 14 kia
    Canada 90..... 20kia
    South African 21 .....9kia
    Jamaica 1
    Irish 9
    American 7 ......1kia
    Polish 141 ......29kia
    Czech 86 ........8kia
    Belgian 29 .......8kia
    French 12
    Palestinian 1
     
  5. Arneken

    Arneken Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Wevelgem,Belgium
    Home Page:
    Some fine surprises !! A Jamacain.
     
  6. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    niagara falls
    and a palestinian
     
  7. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    3,672
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Video and multi-media communications expert
    Location:
    FL
    wow, the poles and the South Africans lost the most proportionally..

    any theories as to why?

    happened to be involved in most fierce fights?
    poor training?
    fighting emotionally?
    most aggressive?

    .
     
  8. Arneken

    Arneken Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Wevelgem,Belgium
    Home Page:
    I overlooked that one. :shock:
     
  9. bigZ

    bigZ Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Both France and Britain treated foreign pilots poorly and with suspicion intially. What also got the backs up of the British was the atempts by seinior foreign officers to try and establish airforces independently the RAF from very early on.

    The common perception today of the Polish airforce is the herioc efforts shown in the film the BOB. But it does not tell all. True Polish pilots were the sought after guests for a party during and immediately after the battle. But very early on High ranking Polish officers where seen in general to be anti semectic. Letters sent to newpapers in 45 /46 complain about these 'foreigners' and demand to know when they would be forceably sent back.

    Augustin Preucil was a Czech pilot and the only known Nazi spy to infiltrate the RAF. He escaped to Beligium and assumed he had been shot down in the channel but phots of his hurricane in a German museum during the war have since come to light. It is thought that he also had a German handler in the RAF whose identity has not been established.
     
  10. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    niagara falls
    Including the RCAF RAAF RNZAF etc they were very upset that the Colonials wanted their own Squadrons .
     
  11. seesul

    seesul Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,519
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Zlin, Czech Republic
    Home Page:
  12. marshall

    marshall Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
  13. MONDARIZ

    MONDARIZ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    As I'm Danish myself, maybe its appropriate I should fly the flag a bit. Since we really didn't do that much as a country.

    There were individuals in allied service, and some of them flew in RAF (although not in BoB, as far as i know), but there was also a group of businessmen/women who all chipped in and presented Winston Churchill himself, wich a check for £38,000. That was enough for 3 Spitfires.

    BL831 - "Skagen Ind"
    BL855 - "Niels Ebbesen"
    BL924 - "Valdemar Atterdag" (A replica is at Tangmere museum).

    Our most famous RAF pilot was Wing Commander Kaj Birksted (OBE, DFC, DSO). Who managed to down 10 enemy planes, making him a double ace.

    He later became a founding officer in the Royal Danish Air Force.

    Danish Spitfires at war

    But i guess our absolute "claim to fame" would be Major Anders Lassen, who served with the Special Boat Squadron of No. 1 Special Air Service Regiment. Lassen was awarded not only 3 military crosses, but also the famous Victoria cross. Unfortulatly he was killed shortly before the war ended.

    Anders Lassen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  14. Arneken

    Arneken Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Wevelgem,Belgium
    Home Page:
    Interesting to read an look at all these things.

    Thank you very much guys.

    If any should have some information about that Palestinian and Jamacian Pilot, it would be great.
     
  15. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    19,419
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer/Photographer
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA
    Home Page:
    Keep in mind that most of the 244 were after the BoB. Only a handful actually served during the BoB.
     
  16. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    3,672
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Video and multi-media communications expert
    Location:
    FL
    I didnt know that.

    ,
     
  17. Negative Creep

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Some Americans pretended to be Canadian so the exact number is unknown. The reference I have states it was 'probably 11'. One of them, Olympic bobsleigh champion Billy Frisk was killed on 17th August flying with 601 Squadron
     
  18. Hop

    Hop Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The Jamaican was Herbert Capstick. He was a navigator or gunner in a Blenheim, I believe, rather that a pilot.

    I believe he was of British origin. He went to an old public school in Britain (private school, Americans would describe it). There is a picture of him on an online auction site:
    CCB Aviation products - Limited Edition aviation prints, books, stamp covers and memorabilia. Robert Taylor, Nicolas Trudgian, Gerald Coulson, Geoff Nutkins, Frank Wooton, Stephen Teasdale

    Second item down.

    The Palestinian was George Ernest Goodman, born in Haifa after the start of the British mandate.
     
  19. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    niagara falls
    I don't believe any of the Yanks in the RCAF had gotten over by that time , Nov 40 early 41 maybe
     
  20. Maestro

    Maestro Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Security Officer
    Location:
    Beaupré, Province of Québec, Canada
    Let's not forget some of our greatest Canadian aces.

    Wing Commander Edward Francis John "Jack" Charles, DSO, DFC with Bar, Silver Star. 15.5 victories.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    (How the hell did he get the Silver Star, it's a mystery to me.)
    Jack Charles

    Wing Commander Mark Henry "Hilly" Brown, DFC with Bar, Czech Military Medal Military Cross, French Croix de Guerre. 18 victories.
    [​IMG]

    Hilly Brown

    Pilot Officer William Lidstone "Willie" McKnight, DFC with Bar. 16.5 victories.
    [​IMG]

    Willie McKnight

    Group Captain John William Maxwell "Max" Aitken, DSO, DFC, Czech Military Medal. 14.2 victories.
    [​IMG]

    Max Aitken
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. bob44
    Replies:
    41
    Views:
    3,398
  2. pinsog
    Replies:
    41
    Views:
    4,011
  3. Arnfinn
    Replies:
    12
    Views:
    2,159
  4. AL Schlageter
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,397
  5. brain44
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    1,907

Share This Page