Galland's Bf 109E-4 1/32 scale

Discussion in 'Start to Finish Builds' started by Gerry, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. Gerry

    Gerry Active Member

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    I am about to embark on a build of the old Matchbox 1/32 E-3(?) Kit, which has rested in my wardrobe for about 15 years. This will be my first Messerschmitt build in any scale!

    I would love to build a yellow nosed version, with mottled fuselage camouflage, as I think that this was one of the most attractive schemes for this aircraft. I have invested in an Aires Cockpit Set (My first experience of Resin, apart from some gun barrels added to my previous build, a Lancaster), aSquadron Vac-Form canopy (again a first) and some Techmod Decals, which include markings for one version of Galland's E-4/N. Otherwise, it's going to be out-of the-box, with whatever modifications I can achieve, by hand.

    I posted first on the 'Galland's Aircraft' thread which I found very informative but a little confusing and hope to get some clarification from contributors on his particular mount at a point in time.

    Here's my first point of confusion. Picture 1: are profiles of the two yellow-nosed 109s from the Techmod decals sheet, Galland's E-4/N W/N 5891 Hans von Hahn's E-4 ( back-up if the Galland E-4 proves too difficult). Pictures 23 I found on the internet and both purport to be 5891 as well, with open spinners. Are any of these profiles accurate? I would prefer to model with an open spinner as that's all that's included in the kit, but would attempt to close the spinner, if necessary. If anyone can throw some light on this, I would be very grateful.



    I will update my progress on the build on this thread but, knowing me, it could be over a long period!
     

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  2. Night Fighter Nut

    Night Fighter Nut Well-Known Member

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    Very nice. Not to worry. There are many experts on website who can give you a guiding hand. :)
     
  3. imalko

    imalko Well-Known Member

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    #3 imalko, Jan 14, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
    Here are the color profiles of Galand's Bf 109E-4/N Wr.N. 5819 as published in Jagdwaffe book. The aircraft appearance is shown for September and December 1940. Think this is as accurate as you can hope to get it...
     

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  4. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    I'll start by saying you can chuck out picture 2. The colours do not look accurate and it's missign the chevron and dashes he would have had by the time of the tally on the rudder. 3 is much closer.
     
  5. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to do galland's aircraft, first you need to establish what time frame, that is How many victories at your given time, as 5819 went through some changes over the 7 odd months that he used this aircraft, second you need to NOT confuse 5819 with 5966 which he used for some time 5966 is often identified as 5819!...as well as a few others....

    If you are doing the open spinner then you would work within the 40 - 57 victory period. there are photo's showing 40, 45, 49, 50, 57 victories without going to my picture list.

    So some more info and we can nail it down for you.:D
     
  6. Gerry

    Gerry Active Member

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    Imalko and Crimea River, thanks for your postings.

    Imalko, am I right in concluding in your first picture, September 1940: no telescope; no Mickey Mouse? But what about the spinner, open or closed? Your 2nd picture caption says closed spinner added December 1940. Was it open before then? These are the inconsistencies that I am trying to nail down.

    Crimea River, my picture ≠3: open spinner + telescope + Mickey Mouse + 40 victory bars. Would all of these been on 5819 at the same time?

    Finally, is the mixture of red and black victory bars on the Techmod decals any way accurate?
     
  7. Gerry

    Gerry Active Member

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    Thanks Wayne, I think my reply to Imalko Crimea River must just have crossed with your post. Please see my reply to them, with my further questions.

    I am trying to build a representative yellow nosed 109 for Galland, but not tied down to any specific period. I would just like to get it as visually accurate as I can. I would be happy to work within the 40 -57 victory tally. Are we still talking 5819, with an open spinner, in that case?

    I noted that your contribution to the recent 'Galland Pictures' thread, which I cited in my introduction, was one of the more comprehensive. You certainly appear to have a great deal of knowledge and references of the subject. If it helped to refer me to any relevant pictures there, by page, rather than having to re upload them, that would be great.
     
  8. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    I defer to Wayne and others on your question, Gerry. I don't have the in depth knowledge needed to answer confidently.
     
  9. BikerBabe

    BikerBabe Active Member

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    I'm reading along here, as I've got the Galland W. Nr. 5819-model (1/48 ) sitting here in it box, waiting for me to start working on it.
    Hmmmm, Don Caldwell's JG 26 books would come in handy now...library it is, then. ;)
    The prob is that I've got a lot of pics of Galland's 109's and other planes, the prob is that I haven't sorted them out yet...hm, time to start, methinks.
    Thanks for the info, guys.
    I'm looking forward to your build, Gerry. :thumbleft:
     
  10. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Gerry, as Wayne pointed out, there were a number of changes to 5819, and the only real way of getting things right is by the victory bars, which can be nailed to a date. I'm sure Wayne will keep you right though!
    Good thing you bought a canopy - as you must have noticed, the one in the kit isn't really useable, although the windscreen and rear glazing are acceptable, and will be easier to fit than the vac formed parts.
     
  11. Gerry

    Gerry Active Member

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    Terry, based on Wayne's post, what I'm going to do now is to go back to Najco's 'Galland's 109s Pictures' thread and start trying to whittle down the photos there to aircraft with between 40 - 57 victory bars, and see does that help. Then I may be able to direct questions to specific aircraft photos on that site, (for example only) Page 4/Biker Babe/ Photo 3.

    I would like to build the open spinner version of the E-4 for two reasons. 1. Less work for me and less chance of making a pig's undercarriage of it, and 2. I think the open spinner is more resonant of the Bf 109E than the closed version.

    As regards the Squadron canopy, that was purchased as a result of a reply you gave during my Lanc build, so thanks for that.

    Biker Babe, It would be great if we could do the two builds in tandem. I find that the hardest part of a build, for me is to actually start, put all the research into action and put adhesive to plastic. Afraid of mucking it up, I suspect. I noticed that you had a major input to the 'Galland's Bf 109's' thread also, so you obviously know your stuff.


    As I mentioned in my initial posts at the end of Najco's 'Galland's Bf109s' thread I am going to be heavily reliant on Terry's 1/32 'White 6' BoB build and Wurger's 1/24 Bf109E builds for getting the airframe and cockpit interior right. I am hoping to start on the engine and interior within the next few days. Can't put it off too much longer. Will keep you posted on progress.

    Finally, Crimea River, thank you for your reply.
     
  12. imalko

    imalko Well-Known Member

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    Hey Gerry, sorry for the late reply...
    As Wayne pointed out Galland's aircraft appearance was changing over the time. First profile shows as it appeared on 24th September with 40 victory black bars on the rudder. No telescope and no Mickey Mouse at that time (check the picture in the attachment), but already with caped spinner. Which means spinner was changed at some earlier date, but don't know when exactly. By the way, telescope was not used for aiming but just for identifying other aircraft at long range. For actual aiming Galland used standard gun sight.
     

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  13. Gerry

    Gerry Active Member

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    Thanks for your posting, imalko. I'm having problems finding a shot of any of Galland's yellow nosed 109s that obviously have an open spinner, although there are a couple of photos that possibly have...more work necessary on my part. How reliable are profiles, in your experience? Completely or not? I suppose it depends on where they are sourced from. Those published in a reputable book on the subject, probably more reliable than some found on the internet?
     
  14. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Think I've got some pics of his yellow-nosed Emil with the standard, un-capped spinner. leave it with me.
     
  15. imalko

    imalko Well-Known Member

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    I think you will never find a color aircraft profile for which you can say it's 100% accurate. Interpreting the black&white photos is a tricky thing, especially when German fighters are concerned with their mottled camouflage. Also, rarely there are pictures available which show entire aircraft, which leaves much to the interpretation and artist impression. Personally, though you can never be absolutely sure, I'm inclined to trust more to those profiles published in well researched and renowned books on the subject.
     
  16. BikerBabe

    BikerBabe Active Member

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    The tandem build sounds fun, count me in. :)
    I'll start my own thread on my build, though, so I won't be disturbing your thread. ;)
    And about my input in the Galland thread - well, the man is one of my favourite pilots of WW2, I guess my reading up on the man's life and machines pays off now and then. ;)

    Cheers,

    Maria.
     
  17. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    The telescope and Mickey mouse were added after the 23rd Sept. don't know exact time though. The spinner was open up to at least victory 57 in December.

    The Red and Black victories are a bit of a puzzle, although one suggestion is that they (Black) are representative of victories scored in different aircraft to 5819?
     
  18. imalko

    imalko Well-Known Member

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    #18 imalko, Jan 16, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
    Are you sure about the spinner Wayne? Because in "Jagdwaffe Vol 2 Sect 3 Battle of Britain Phase Three September-October 1940" a profile of Galland's "5819" is shown with caped spinner already (according to the caption) in late September.
    Then again there's this picture from the same book, showing "5819" with telescope and caped spinner (but still lacking Mickey Mouse) circa in November 1940.
     

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  19. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    I might add that if you go to the photo album section under the "Members albums" I posted an album with all the pics from the thread. Might be easier than going through all those pages.

    and if you need any reference I do have both books on JG 26 by Caldwell. As far as what was what, I defer to the experts here.

    But.....as has been said, best thing to do first is set a date and work from there. I think the time period from Sept. '40 to December '40 has the most reference pics of Galland's crate.
     
  20. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Here's a couple of pics from a well-known series of shots of 5819, which are actually 'stills' from 16mm movie footage. (somewhere, I have some of the footage, which is only about 10- 15 seconds or so.)
    They clearly show the standard, un-capped spinner, telescope, and Micky Mouse, and are generally regarded to have been taken / filmed around late September - early October 1940, and this is in line with the foliage still on the trees.
     

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