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Zyzygie’s Mumbles and Rambles
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Hi
Exactly when was that? I can't at present locate any Tempest loss to the He 162, more detail would be useful.
Mike
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Hi
This is a problem as two Tempests were lost that day, to Flak. SN 190 of No. 33 Sqn. and EJ 883 of No. 222 Sqn. (pp. 173-174 of 'RAF Fighter Command Losses of the Second World War' by Norman Franks, this includes 2nd TAF losses). The book '2nd Tactical Air Force', Volume 3 by Shores and Thomas, (pp. 497-498) do have a Tempest and He 162 'incident'. However, it was the He 162 that was shot down, killing Fhj. Fw Gunther Kirchener of 3./JG 1. The German report (from Lt. Gerhard Stiemer) was that they were attacked by Thunderbolts but this appears to be a mis-identification (not unusual) as none were in the area. The Tempest (SN 185) involved was from No. 222 Sqn. flown by Flt. Lt. G. Walkington, who could not identify the type but identified it as 'enemy' by its camouflage and markings. he had been involved in attacks on German airfields when he noticed the two unidentified enemy aircraft which he went after (with difficulty), but got several bursts of gunfire in from about 1,000 yards.
From this we appear not to have a loss of a Tempest to the He 162 but a loss of a He 162 to a Tempest! The video just appears to make a statement rather than details of the incident, if anyone has further information of a loss of a Tempest to the He 162 it would be of interest.
Mike
Hi
Endeavouring to find a He 162 claim for a 'Tempest', the closest I can come to at present is the 4th May 1945. This was Tempest V JN 877 of No. 486 (RNZAF) flown by F/O M Austin, who became a POW, however, it is down as crash landing due to engine failure near SATRUP. This has been associated with a claim for a Typhoon shot down west of BARSINGHAUSEN by a pilot of JG1 flying a He162. (p. 180, RAF Fighter Command losses). It is also mentioned in Shores/Thomas (p. 536) which, on this incident, mentions that:
"There may be a possibility that this may have been the only 2nd TAF aircraft to fall to an He 162 jet, Lt. R. Schmitt of I./JG 1 claiming a Typhoon shot down on this date; however, Austin had been experiencing engine trouble with his Tempest before this exploded, forcing him down. There is no corresponding Typhoon losses."
So again a bit problematic.
Mike
Endeavouring to find a He 162 claim for a 'Tempest', the closest I can come to at present is the 4th May 1945. This was Tempest V JN 877 of No. 486 (RNZAF) flown by F/O M Austin, who became a POW, however, it is down as crash landing due to engine failure near SATRUP. This has been associated with a claim for a Typhoon shot down west of BARSINGHAUSEN by a pilot of JG1 flying a He162. (p. 180, RAF Fighter Command losses). It is also mentioned in Shores/Thomas (p. 536) which, on this incident, mentions that:
"There may be a possibility that this may have been the only 2nd TAF aircraft to fall to an He 162 jet, Lt. R. Schmitt of I./JG 1 claiming a Typhoon shot down on this date; however, Austin had been experiencing engine trouble with his Tempest before this exploded, forcing him down. There is no corresponding Typhoon losses."
So again a bit problematic.
Mike
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I think they may be wrong in their claim that they have the last airworthy Meteor. Martin Baker use two as platforms for testing their ejection seats:
Why does Martin-Baker use a Gloster Meteor as a testbed for ejection seats?
Why does Martin-Baker use a Gloster Meteor as a testbed for ejection seats?
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There are five airworthy Meteors left.
Two F.8's, and one NF.11 in the UK. One F.8 in Australia, and one T7 in the USA.
Two F.8's, and one NF.11 in the UK. One F.8 in Australia, and one T7 in the USA.
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The Me 163 concept, and Dr Lippisch, were very influential in the development of the the Saunders Roe SR 177:
The Rise and Fall of the British Rocket Jet Fighter - The SR-177 - Curious Droid
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The War in the West - A New History
Eric Brown was a germanophile. He was a personal friend of Ernst Udet. He spoke fluent German and was living in Germany at the time of the outbreak of the War.
"...In 1936, the 17-year-old Brown was taken by his father to see the Berlin Olympics. The existence of the Luftwaffe, the German air force, had only recently been acknowledged at the time, and Brown was taken by his father to meet a number of the key members of the organisation, including [Hermann Göring and] Ernst Udet, a World War One fighter ace. On discovering Eric's love of flying, Ernst Udet took him up as a passenger in a two-seat Bücker Jungmann and treated him to a vigorous display of aerobatics..."
Captain Eric Brown: Biography on Undiscovered Scotland
He maintained his friendship with Udet, who helped him find work as a student instructor in the Schule Schloss Salem in southern Germany.
His comments on the Me 262 should be looked at in this context.
Eric Brown was a germanophile. He was a personal friend of Ernst Udet. He spoke fluent German and was living in Germany at the time of the outbreak of the War.
"...In 1936, the 17-year-old Brown was taken by his father to see the Berlin Olympics. The existence of the Luftwaffe, the German air force, had only recently been acknowledged at the time, and Brown was taken by his father to meet a number of the key members of the organisation, including [Hermann Göring and] Ernst Udet, a World War One fighter ace. On discovering Eric's love of flying, Ernst Udet took him up as a passenger in a two-seat Bücker Jungmann and treated him to a vigorous display of aerobatics..."
Captain Eric Brown: Biography on Undiscovered Scotland
He maintained his friendship with Udet, who helped him find work as a student instructor in the Schule Schloss Salem in southern Germany.
His comments on the Me 262 should be looked at in this context.
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I believe the museum's claim is that they're flying the last airworthy Gloster Meteor F.8.
The Martin Baker machines are late model T.7s - as I understand it.
Sounds reasonable considering the pilot is flying the last airworthy specimen of the Gloster Meteor F.8.
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The Meteor was arguably in the design tradition of the Typhoon fighter bomber. A rugged, all round fighter and ground attack aircraft. In fact Gloster was the main centre for Typhoon production during the War.
The German infrantrymen and tank crews in WW II had every reason to fear the Typhoon, as would the Chinese soldiers in Korea the Meteor:
"The British had their Typhoon aircraft which we called the 'Schreckliche Jabo' ('the terrifying fighter-bomber.') This aircraft fired a mix of high explosive and napalm rockets from under the wings. This Typhoon was like the British version of our old Stuka, it put fear into the hearts of honest soldiers! The rockets would shoot down into the engine decks of our panzers, exploding in the grille vents, and blow up the engine, causing fires that in the Panther could set off the 75mm ammunition stored in the sponsons adjacent to the engine bay; or the rockets would explode on the thinner armor plate on top of the turret. Some Panther crews even fitted extra armour plate on the grilles and turret top to try to counteract this..."
SS Panzer SS Inferno (Eyewitness panzer crews) Book 2: Normandy to Berlin . Sprech Archives Media and Publishing. Kindle Edition.
"...As suddenly as it began, the barrage ended, and the fighter-bombers swept in. A group of seven Typhoons headed for Braun's position next to a stone wall. 'Flashes of light rippled along their wings as they fired,' the senior NCO recalled."
"He continued: Instantly, several of our vehicles, parked out of sight in a sunken road, went up in flames, marking our positions for the enemy with columns of jet-black ascending smoke. Hell broke loose. Machine-gun bursts mingled with the screeching of rockets. We lay huddled here, pulses beating, while the ricochets went chirping through the bushes, or hit with a crack against the stone walls. Then the bombs came whistling down, nearly bursting our eardrums, and men, weapons and fragments of shattered vehicles were thrown into the air. Explosive rockets came howling away from under the wings of some of them. They burst on the ground, brightly-glaring as a lightning flash, leaving behind a spray of a thousand splinters. For an eternity of minutes, the screaming of my wounded comrades and the terrified roaring of mortally-wounded cattle which had been grazing in the fields, was mingled with the chaotic sound of the low-level air attack..."
Hargreaves, Richard. THE GERMANS IN NORMANDY . Pen and Sword. Kindle Edition.
The German infrantrymen and tank crews in WW II had every reason to fear the Typhoon, as would the Chinese soldiers in Korea the Meteor:
"The British had their Typhoon aircraft which we called the 'Schreckliche Jabo' ('the terrifying fighter-bomber.') This aircraft fired a mix of high explosive and napalm rockets from under the wings. This Typhoon was like the British version of our old Stuka, it put fear into the hearts of honest soldiers! The rockets would shoot down into the engine decks of our panzers, exploding in the grille vents, and blow up the engine, causing fires that in the Panther could set off the 75mm ammunition stored in the sponsons adjacent to the engine bay; or the rockets would explode on the thinner armor plate on top of the turret. Some Panther crews even fitted extra armour plate on the grilles and turret top to try to counteract this..."
SS Panzer SS Inferno (Eyewitness panzer crews) Book 2: Normandy to Berlin . Sprech Archives Media and Publishing. Kindle Edition.
"...As suddenly as it began, the barrage ended, and the fighter-bombers swept in. A group of seven Typhoons headed for Braun's position next to a stone wall. 'Flashes of light rippled along their wings as they fired,' the senior NCO recalled."
"He continued: Instantly, several of our vehicles, parked out of sight in a sunken road, went up in flames, marking our positions for the enemy with columns of jet-black ascending smoke. Hell broke loose. Machine-gun bursts mingled with the screeching of rockets. We lay huddled here, pulses beating, while the ricochets went chirping through the bushes, or hit with a crack against the stone walls. Then the bombs came whistling down, nearly bursting our eardrums, and men, weapons and fragments of shattered vehicles were thrown into the air. Explosive rockets came howling away from under the wings of some of them. They burst on the ground, brightly-glaring as a lightning flash, leaving behind a spray of a thousand splinters. For an eternity of minutes, the screaming of my wounded comrades and the terrified roaring of mortally-wounded cattle which had been grazing in the fields, was mingled with the chaotic sound of the low-level air attack..."
Hargreaves, Richard. THE GERMANS IN NORMANDY . Pen and Sword. Kindle Edition.
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No, they shouldn't - don't be ridiculous. Brown was no more a German sympathiser than Churchill was. Yes, he admired their technical prowess - we do! Besides, if you read Wings of the Luftwaffe you will note that he has a lot of less than complimentary stuff to say about a lot of German aircraft.
Working on that...
Zyzygie - Another Brit who preferred the Me 262...
Spitfire pilots and aircraft database - Flt lt Reginald C Gosling RAF
