Lucky13
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Just curious! 
Grand Slam v MOAB....
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I was thinking the same, having seen the News.
The 'earthquake' effect of the WW2 'Grand Slam' would seem to be suited to the task that MOAB has just been used for, rather than 'air burst'. Marry this effect ot the precision of MOAB, and there's be one ******* big hole in the target area !
The 'earthquake' effect of the WW2 'Grand Slam' would seem to be suited to the task that MOAB has just been used for, rather than 'air burst'. Marry this effect ot the precision of MOAB, and there's be one ******* big hole in the target area !
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Lucky13
Forum Mascot
True....
Wasn't the Grand Slam, also known as or called an earthquake bomb or something similar?
Wasn't the Grand Slam, also known as or called an earthquake bomb or something similar?
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Yep.
The plan was that it would go 'supersonic' on the way down, penetrate the earth, and cause a mini earthquake, thereby 'toppling' the target, in the case of the Bielefeld viaduct for example, or by causing massive shock-wave / subsidence damage.
The plan was that it would go 'supersonic' on the way down, penetrate the earth, and cause a mini earthquake, thereby 'toppling' the target, in the case of the Bielefeld viaduct for example, or by causing massive shock-wave / subsidence damage.
How precise is a weapon 'booted out the back door' of a C-130?
This looks like a case of 'we've got it so we'll use it' and I very much doubt that it has been as effective as the USAAF publicity machine would have us believe.
I agree that if those in charge of targeting actually know which caves they want to hit, then a grand slam type of bomb would be the best means of destroying them. The MOAB seems intended to target the occupants of the complex, but will do nothing to prevent the survivors or others returning, unless the USAAF intends to continue dropping ordnance costing hundreds of millions of dollars on a few hundred guerillas on regular and ongoing basis. It's done something similar before.
The MOAB is more like a giant 'cookie', blasting an area somewhat like a massive anti-personnel device and not something I associate with precision.
Cheers
Steve
This looks like a case of 'we've got it so we'll use it' and I very much doubt that it has been as effective as the USAAF publicity machine would have us believe.
I agree that if those in charge of targeting actually know which caves they want to hit, then a grand slam type of bomb would be the best means of destroying them. The MOAB seems intended to target the occupants of the complex, but will do nothing to prevent the survivors or others returning, unless the USAAF intends to continue dropping ordnance costing hundreds of millions of dollars on a few hundred guerillas on regular and ongoing basis. It's done something similar before.
The MOAB is more like a giant 'cookie', blasting an area somewhat like a massive anti-personnel device and not something I associate with precision.
Cheers
Steve
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
That's more or less my thinking - the 'AB' in MOAB being "air burst", although according to the BBC News reports, it's apparently GPS guided.
When I saw it dropping out of the rear end of a Herc, I immediately thought of the Argentinians rolling 'iron' bombs out of the back of one of their Hercs !
When I saw it dropping out of the rear end of a Herc, I immediately thought of the Argentinians rolling 'iron' bombs out of the back of one of their Hercs !
I would imagine it has some kind of guidance as it has two short wings and 4 "vanes" off the rear.
T Bolt
Colonel
The Grand Slam and the MOAB are basically the same size, 22,000 lbs vs 21,000 lbs. The tail fins of the MOAB deploy after it is slid out the back of the C-130 and is guided to the target by them, so even though the MOAB is not the largest conventional bomb ever dropped, it is the largest smart bomb ever dropped.
There's also a lot of confusion about the weight of the bomb and its filling. Americans generally use the short ton (2,000lbs) whereas the British used, and still use, the long ton (2,240lbs). Then there is the metric ton (1,000kg/2,205lbs).
The filling of the MOAB is 18,700lbs (9.35 US tons) of H6 as far as I can find out. The power of the explosion is often being reported as a TNT equivalence of 11 tons, but that is not the weight of explosives as some reports are saying..
All very confusing.
Doesn't the USAF have an even heavier version of the grand slam in the 30,000lb GBU-57 A/B MOP ?
Cheers
Steve
The filling of the MOAB is 18,700lbs (9.35 US tons) of H6 as far as I can find out. The power of the explosion is often being reported as a TNT equivalence of 11 tons, but that is not the weight of explosives as some reports are saying..
All very confusing.
Doesn't the USAF have an even heavier version of the grand slam in the 30,000lb GBU-57 A/B MOP ?
Cheers
Steve
Because the USAF has a better PR department then United Airlines
'Re-accomodate' ffs.
Cheers
Steve
If that is the case it is more confusing, the Grand slam used torpex which was 50% more powerful than TNT the Grand Slam said to have 6.5 tons in TNT equivalence.
Grand Slam (bomb) - Wikipedia
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I'm still slightly puzzled - if this is an 'air burst' weapon, similar, in principle at least, to the WW2 'cookie' or 'blockbuster', why use it to try to knock out underground positions ?
OK, there'd be some damage, but the whole idea of an air-burst weapon is to have maximum blast and shock-wave effect above ground, for example, to flatten structures and / or eliminate surface forces and equipment.
Of course, it may have been fused to detonate after entering the surface.
OK, there'd be some damage, but the whole idea of an air-burst weapon is to have maximum blast and shock-wave effect above ground, for example, to flatten structures and / or eliminate surface forces and equipment.
Of course, it may have been fused to detonate after entering the surface.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Supposedly the Russians have a FOAB that's twice as powerful.
I keep reading in the news that this was the first time the MOAB had been used in combat, but I'm pretty sure it was used in Afghanistan before.
I keep reading in the news that this was the first time the MOAB had been used in combat, but I'm pretty sure it was used in Afghanistan before.
Not hard these days. Still seems just a little excessive...Because the USAF has a better PR department then United Airlines
Because our orange friend wanted to play with his new toy...
The Grand Slam contained 9,135lbs of Torpex, 4.57 short tons. The TNT equivalent of 6.5 tons is about correct if short tons were used, and they often were in this context at the time. The figure would be just over 6 tons if long tons were used (unlikely).
The body and fins of a Grand Slam weighed almost 13,000lbs. the case was 7.75 inches thick near the nose and still 1.75 inches thick at the tail. This was to enable penetration, without the bomb breaking up. Grand Slam and Tall Boy could penetrate at least 10 feet of reinforced concrete and on occasion ruptured the 23 feet of concrete used in some U-boat pens by inducing a shock wave in the structure.
The body and fins of a MOAB weigh only about 3,000lbs.
Cheers
Steve
Edit: I've just read the wiki article on the Grand Slam. The drop on 13th March 1945 at the Ashley Walk range was the first drop of a LIVE bomb. The first drop of an inert bomb was in the previous November.
The Ashley Walk bomb, dropped from 16,000ft, produced a crater 124 ft in diametre and 30' deep and was deemed a success by all concerned. The very next day Squadron Leader Calder of No. 617 Squadron would drop one in anger, also from 16,000ft, on the Bielefeld viaducts.
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I have the same concern with the UKs two carriers, very quickly some situation will arise where they simply have to be used.
Glider
Captain
If we can afford the aircraft, find enought sailors to crew the carriers, find a couple of ships to act as an escort and hope nothing else happens in the world as that would probably take the entire RN to deploy them.
