Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

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Poll in wrong thread, can Eric please remove this.

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  1. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    By SUE LINDSEY, Associated Press Writer
    8 minutes ago



    BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people in the deadliest campus shooting rampage in U.S. history. The gunman was killed, bringing to death toll to 22, but it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.

    "Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said Virginia Tech president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

    The name of the gunman was not immediately released, and investigators offered no motive for the attack. It was not immediately known if the gunman was a student.

    FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."

    The bloodbath took place at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a coed dormitory that houses 895 people, and continuing about two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building, authorities said.

    Police said they were still investigating the shooting at the dorm — and the campus was under lockdown, with students to stay indoors and away from the windows — when authorities got word of gunfire at the classroom building.

    Some of the dead were students. One student was killed in the dorm, and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum.

    Up until Monday, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police. In the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo., in 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

    The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was in Killen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard drove his pickup into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

    Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains of southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse football team.

    The rampage took place on a brisk spring day, with snow flurries swirling around the campus, which is is centered around the Drill Field, a grassy field where military cadets — who now represent a fraction of the student body — once practiced. The dorm and the classroom building are on opposites sides of the Drill Field.

    A gasp could be heard at a campus news conference when the police chief said at least 20 people had been killed. Previously, only one person was thought to have been killed.

    Investigators from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives began marking and recovering the large number of shell casings and will trace the weapon used, according to an ATF official who spoke on condition of anonymity because local authorities are leading the investigation.

    A White House spokesman said President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

    "The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said

    After the shootings, all entrances to the campus were closed, and classes were canceled through Tuesday. The university set up a meeting place for families to reunite with their children at the Inn at Virginia Tech. It also made counselors available and planned a convocation for Tuesday at the basketball arena.

    After the shootings, students were told to stay inside away from the windows.

    "There's just a lot of commotion. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on," said Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the dorm where shooting took place.

    Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.

    "They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."

    "We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.

    Madison Van Duyne, a student who was interviewed by telephone on CNN, said: "We are all in lockdown. Most of the students are sitting on the floors away from the windows just trying to be as safe as possible."

    Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks by authorities but said they have not determined a link to the shootings.

    It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.

    Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

    ___

    Associated Press writer Matt Apuzzo in Washington contributed to this story.
     
  2. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Jesus Christ...
     
  3. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Here come the anti-gunners...

    Hold on to your nuts.
     
  4. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    Because criminals can't possibly procure a firearm through illicit means :shock:
     
  5. Screaming Eagle

    Screaming Eagle Active Member

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    I was watching CNN again today, the death toll reached 33. Not a good thing.
     
  6. FalkeEins

    FalkeEins Member

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    ..these people are usually disaffected psycotic former students with a grudge...and of course gun control would make it a bit harder than being able to buy an assault rifle over the counter no questions asked..

    ..mind boggling ...elsewhere in the free world we just sit here and wonder at the stupidity of it all...
     
  7. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    WRONG!!!!!!

    One thing Europeans (And other folks) don't understand is that most of the gun violence committed in the US is done so with illegally purchased or acquired guns. Assault rifles are not the choice weapon of a criminal in this country as many of them are are bulky and hard to conceal and many of them cannot be bought over the counter in this country as many of them are banned, some by individual states, another myth bought by then rest of the world when US gun laws are scrutinized.

    The massacre committed yesterday was done with handguns. Whether this nut purchased these guns legally is another story.

    BTW Virginia Tech had regulations about firearms on campus - Students and faculty members are forbidden to bring firearms in the dorms and in the classrooms - that regulation was a big help yesterday. :rolleyes:

    The highest gun crime rate in the US is in Washington DC, where the most restrictive gun laws in the nation are. The lowest is in Arizona, with the most permissive gun laws. A direct correlation, maybe, maybe not. In the 1800s most males went armed, and many females. There were still murders, some multiple. The abundance of, or lack of, armed individuals is not a deterrent to one obsessed with this type of action.

    For several years screwdrivers have been used for violent attacks more often than knives. Should we restrict or outlaw them? What about base ball bats? There were murders long before firearms, it goes with our species.

    My point is, no amount of laws would have prevented this. One that is intent on murder or any other crime is not deterred by laws. Laws are on the books to keep honest people honest and to punish after the fact. Hindsight is always 20/20. From what I have seen the police reacted with reason as did the University Administration. Some events just can not be altered or controlled. I am sure the lawyers will prey on the victims families and point to scapegoats other than the actual criminal.
     
  8. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    No questions asked? You obviously are not familiar with US gun laws.
     
  9. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Especially since you can not legally buy any gun "over" the counter. I agree Matt someone needs to learn more about the laws before placing judgement.
     
  10. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Same with the gunshow hysteria. As anyone will tell you that has ACTUALLY BEEN to a gunshow, the show sponsors require you to either be a member (have a prior background check), a current concealed carry permit, or they relagate you to LOOKING ONLY.

    I wish these people would just come out and say it. They want to take away everyone's guns. It's not about a modicum of laws. They want them all. So be a man and put your agenda on the table.
     
  11. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    I really don't know why the NRA types go hysterical every time there is a VT type thing with worry about gun laws . I've got more chance of being Paris Hiltons love toy then proper gun controls in the US
    that problem is spilling over to my country and most firearms used in killings in Canada find there way over the border and most were purchased legally in the US but were stolen from the owners (poorly stored) or sold by the same to low lifes . Whomever had the gun stolen from them should be just as culpable as the user if you you knew who owned them
     
  12. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    well here in southern Oregon visiting many many gun shows and watching the shifty eye'd kooks in the process....remember gents I live in the Platonic sphere, home of possibly the largest contingent of idiot survivalists on this very planet

    as of late a guy off the street can eye-ball a wish and have his credit and background checked in a matter of minutes via computer up to Salem (capitol) and back again wheather to sell or nor. many guns shows for this very reason are opening up on Fridays instead of just the weekends

    yes we still have round-ups and wagon trains and Indians doing the whoop ass
     
  13. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    If stolen guns are making there way into Canada from the US then there's a problem at the border. You know as well as I you could smuggle a pink elephant into Canada and no one will notice, especially at the falls or Fort Erie...

    As far as owners being responsible for their guns being ripped off - do you have facts to back that up? I knew a gun store owner who had his fortified shop broken into - the thieves spent 2 days drilling a hole in a 2 foot concrete wall through a vacated shop next to his (they did this at night). All his guns were in safes and these thieves still managed to rip the guy off. No way should he be held responsible.

    NRA folks go nuts after this because the first thing liberal US politicians and news people do is target ALL legal gun owners. If that fear wasn't raised law abiding gun owners in the US would of had their LEGAL firearms confiscated years ago...

    BTW I'll repeat - the toughest gun laws in the US are in Washington DC which has the highest crime rate in the US. The most lenient gun laws are found in Arizona - lowest crime rate in the US.
     
  14. FalkeEins

    FalkeEins Member

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    .. well I don't think legislators in the US can just sit back and do nothing after this one can they ...guns are designed to kill people, whoever owns them ..freely available they will get into the wrong hands....no good then throwing up your hands in horror every time one of these periodic massacres occurs. We've sat and watched a procession of US commentators on the TV today and if I knew nothing about US guns laws before I do now. No questions asked..? got that wrong - in Virginia, its one question (criminal record) when purchasing a hand-gun..(well, two if you count age...)

    yeah we understand that owning a gun in the US is part of that 'we don't need no government in our face, wild frontier' mentality, that the constitution enshrines this 'right' and that no-one could modify that very easily..

    what opened my eyes today was the American on Sky who explained that he'd moved to Birmingham - the UK's third largest city, not a terribly nice place - to bring up his family in a less violent environment, to escape a culture of violence and gun crime in the US - of all the places he could have gone...
     
  15. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    Then where do the illegal guns come from if not from a source that purchased them legally . Gun control will never occur in the states and for the NRA types to go into damage control is a waste of your dues money
     
  16. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Wrong again my friend, I hate to be cliche People Kill People, a gun is just an instrument, the same way a knife, screwdriver or shank of spaghetti could be if used if executed correctly
    I've owned guns for 20 years - the only hands my guns have gotten into is mine and those who I allow to handle them, it's that simple. Guns will be stolen, that's a given, but at the same time if all firearms are removed from any general population they will still be acquired, I could point to the UK and many other European countries who have totally banned firearms and yet every year there are people murdered despite any ban, it doesn't work....
    And do you think a news commentator really knows US gun laws? Not only are there are federal laws but each state, District of Columbia and US territory has different gun laws, some with more restrictions, some with little restrictions. Your education on US gun laws amounted to the same amount British cultural exchange I would have recieved if I read the Sun every day for a week.
    And it works most of the time - if this guy was denied a firearm he could of gotten one illegal anyway, the same way any criminal in any part of the world would do, even in your country...

    The man was crazy and was determined to kill and would of did so anyway with or without a gun....
    That's right and there are many of us proud of it and by the way look at a map, we still have a wild frontier that requires people to own and use firearms....
    Here ya go, Birmingham has had it's share of gun crimes by your standards...

    BBC - Birmingham Have Your Say - Gun Crimes

    I think this fellow you cite made a bad choice...

    But yet over all if you want to talk comparison crime, lets say burglary, the UK has a higher rate than the US....

    [​IMG]

    Bottom line, unless you ever been to the US and fully understand our criminal system, gun laws and constitution, you have no place to comment, it would be like me bitching about the change of guard at Buckingham....
     
  17. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Go to San Diego (National City to be specific) one weekend. There's tons of illegal stuff crossing our southern borders every day and many of them are illegal firearms making their way from Central and South America. There is also a huge black market that will import guns circumventing any type of regulatory system set up by the BTAF. And of course those guns that are stolen from law abiding citizens, armories and even police station.
    No, it allows law abiding citizens to keep their guns, so we don't wind up like other parts of the world who instituted gun confiscation and who are now paying the price!!!!

    Although this is dated, not much has changed in 6 years....

    "Britain, Australia top U.S. in violent crime
    Rates Down Under increase despite strict gun-control measures
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    By Jon Dougherty
    © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

    Law enforcement and anti-crime activists regularly claim that the United States tops the charts in most crime-rate categories, but a new international study says that America's former master -- Great Britain -- has much higher levels of crime.

    The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations.

    Twenty-six percent of English citizens -- roughly one-quarter of the population -- have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized.

    The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

    Jack Straw, the British home secretary, admitted that "levels of victimization are higher than in most comparable countries for most categories of crime."

    Highlights of the study indicated that:

    The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in England and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United States and 0.4 percent in Japan.
    Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest recorded. Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher rates of burglary with entry than England and Wales (2.8 percent). In the U.S., the rate was 2.6 percent, according to 1995 figures;
    "After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said.
    England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent of the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent in Australia and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among the "top 10" nations.
    The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4 percent of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was second with 3.1 percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.
    Interestingly, the study found that one of the lowest victimization rates -- just 15 percent overall -- occurred in Northern Ireland, home of the Irish Republican Army and scene of years of terrorist violence.
    Analysts in the U.S. were quick to point out that all of the other industrialized nations included in the survey had stringent gun-control laws, but were overall much more violent than the U.S.

    Indeed, information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a much safer country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers in 1996.

    "The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a Foster's, and tell him the facts," the CPHV site says.

    "In 1998, the rate at which firearms were used in murder, attempted murder, assault, sexual assault and armed robbery went down. In that year, the last for which statistics are available, the number of murders involving a firearm declined to its lowest point in four years," says CPHV.

    However, the International Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime victimization Down Under rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988, to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.

    Advocates of less gun control in the U.S. say the drop in gun murder rates was more than offset by the overall victimization increase. Also, they note that Australia leads the ICVS report in three of four categories -- burglary (3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall victimization (about 31 percent).

    Australia is second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent).

    In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since Australia's widespread gun ban, violent crime had increased in the country.

    WND reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story:

    Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
    Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
    Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent.
    In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent.
    In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily.
    There has been a reported
    "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly."
     
  18. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    Illegal guns don't seem to be a problem in this case though since he purchased both legally.
    Guns are part of American culture from the Minute Men to the settling of the west when weapons were necessary and nothing will ever infringe on that, if guns were registered or controlled in the US it would be akin to civil war. I just don't like the overflow coming here with the gangs.
     
  19. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    That's a problem Canadians have to tackle, the same way we have to deal with it here. US gang-bangers will not fester in Canada unless there is support for them by people already established as Canadian citizens or landed immigrants and I would guess the latter is far and few. You have a problem with "wanna bees" and they are being fueled by @ssholes from here. There's an advantage however, you control your border and can keep a lot of the crap out.
     
  20. FalkeEins

    FalkeEins Member

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    ..yes we have terrible problems here but..do we really have to point out that 1% of 50 million doesn't begin to equate with 0.75% of 240 million...I can do the quote thing too ..

    .."Once again, Congress is staring down the barrel of the mighty National Rifle Association, and reasonable gun control laws may become the first of many casualties. Considering that nearly 10,000 Americans are killed in handgun crimes each year - about 25 handgun murders day after day - the last thing we need is exactly what the N.R.A. wants: looser handgun laws.." (New York Times)

    ..so you see Virginia Tech occurs every day in your country ..only you don't see it like that ...

    ..I'm surprised you haven't pointed out that had one of the students or the professors had a hand gun on them too, then they could have shot the guy before the carnage ..
     
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