Gunther Bode'a bf109e-4

Discussion in 'Aircraft Markings and Camouflage' started by von hahn, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. von hahn

    von hahn Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Hi all. I used to have a printed copy of the A.I. (2) g (?) Crash report detailing Gunther Bode's bf109e-4 w.nr.1394 that crashed on 9th September 1940 in Mayfield during the Battle of Britain. I've subsequently lost it and can't find a link to it anywhere,so I was wondering if anyone here has a copy and in particular if anyone knows if the aircraft's nose and rudder were yellow? Did it have any kill markings?


    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Andrew Arthy

    Andrew Arthy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Queensland, Australia
    Home Page:
    #2 Andrew Arthy, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2016
    Please find it attached.

    WNr. 1394 report.jpg

    Cheers,
    Andrew A.
     
  3. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7,513
    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The entire nose was not yellow!
    There are pictures of this aircraft under camouflage netting on Knowle Farm ("in the large 12 acre field" according to Mrs Shelmerdine, who lived on the farm) and on display at Ashford and later Canterbury which clearly show that the lower colour on the nose (presumably the yellow referred to) did not extend over the upper surface camouflage. I think it might only have been the lower cowling painted yellow, rather like the later common identification marking, but can't know for sure.

    I've attached a detail image of the nose from one of the Ashford photographs.

    Cheers

    Steve
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Mike Williams

    Mike Williams Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    28
    That crash report of Bode's Me 109 is interesting, especially this passage: "Standard bulkhead, but no head protection for pilot..."

    There doesn't appear to be any rear pilot armour in this photo of the aircraft.

    [​IMG]

    Here' another photo of a Me 109E shot down on 31 August 1940 that I had readily at hand, that doesn't appear to show any armour pilot armour either.

    [​IMG]

    Hmmm, so Battle of Britain era Me 109s didn't have pilot rear head armour?
     
  5. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7,513
    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well Wilhelm Fronhofer's Bf 109 certainly didn't have it! .

    There were also two versions, the vertical trapezoid plate behind the pilot and the version with the horizontal plate over the pilot's head as well. A quick and thoroughly unscientific perusal of various photographs and CEARs would indicate that most from the BoB period had neither.

    One problem is that if the pilot jettisoned the hood before making a crash landing, the armour went with the rear section of the canopy (and radio mast) which meant it was unlikely to be retrieved or reported.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Messages:
    47,633
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    #6 Airframes, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
    'Luftwaffe Crash Archive, Volume 3', shows photos of this aircraft before, and after it crash landed. The 'before' shot, taken from rear 3/4 starboard, shows the open canopy, without head armour.
    It is confirmed that the yellow ID paint only extended up to the edge of the upper surface camouflage, clearly seen in all photos of this machine. The aircraft remained in the 'large, 12 acre field' for three weeks, before being moved and later put on display.
    As Steve mentioned, there were basically two main types of head armour - the vertical plate, and one with a curved, horizontal plate on the top, both of which were attached to the rear frame of the opening section of the canopy. The former was mainly fitted to the earlier, curved canopy, due to space restrictions, although there were a few aircraft which also had the top plate. The armour pate with the top section was fitted to the later 'square' canopy, and in general, this seemed to be the norm by September 1940, although there were many exceptions, with canopies without head armour, either due to delays in fitting, or perhaps by personal choice of the pilot, as the armour restricted movement and view in an already cramped and restricted cockpit.
    Hope this helps.
    EDIT: I forgot to add, the canopy and rear glazing, complete with undamaged radio mast, are seen alongside the aircraft on display in Stanhay's Garage, Ashford, and presumably this was jettisoned immediately prior to belly-landing. There is no sign of 'kill' markings on either side of the fin or rudder.
    The rudder was yellow.
     
  7. von hahn

    von hahn Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    A very big 'Thank you!' to everyone who has replied- your time to reply and sharing of knowledge and assistance is very much appreciated.
     
  8. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Messages:
    47,633
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    You're welcome.
     
Loading...

Share This Page