HA-1109-K1L Tripala' Me109' Colour scheme

SirFrancis

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Feb 10, 2022
Hey people,
I picked up a 1/72 kit of the Spanish 'Tripala.' So these were Me109G-2 frames with a Hispano engine / cowl added to front end. I actually much prefer the look of these over the Merlin engine Buchons. They retain a sleek nose like the original but with their own unique style.

So the instructions just say medium blue all over. A quick look online found some built models with lots of variation, a Mongraphs book showing a greyish colour on a pic.
I found one in a museum that is a light grey all over.

Does anyone have info on what the correct colour should be?
Ok cheers

1670478300566.png

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1670477492449.png

1670477914950.png
 
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Wurger

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The colour applied overall depended on the time of the service. The 94-27 wore the military number the C.4-J.9. This indicates she was one of the first HA 1109K1L. The batch was delivered to the Spanish AF in May 1951 as memo serves. The planes were painted with a coat called the Mouse Grey or IIRC, the Barrack Grey at that time. The colour was used untill the HA 1112M1L Buchon were delivered in 1954. Initially the Blue coat was used for the HA 1109M1L prototype only. It was a very fragile paint peeling off with the large strips and flakes. The Cobalt Blue no.9 ( actually a car lacquer therefore it is also called the Peugeot Blue or something like that ) was used for the HA 1112M1L Buchon. As memo serves it was just in the mid of 50'. The Blue paint was close to the RLM24. The colour was of a better quality but still liking peeling off and getting faded under the Spanish Sun. Therefore the aircraft "uniform" required refreshing often. It was done by the maintenance crews trying not to overpaint national insignias and tactical numbers. In 1960 the Silver on tops, sides and the Blue for undersides were used. Because the silver paint was unstable as well and lasted 2 years only causing problems with the light reflections during landing, the black matt anti-glare strip appeared in front of the cockpits. That's all I found in my notes saved a couple years ago. I don't have info written down if the earlier planes were repainted with the blue colour later or not. But judging by the colour shot of the 94-28 these were, although decommissioned in 1955/1956.
Well ... according to my info , the model of the 94-9, 94-27 and the profile of the 94-28 (C.4-J.10) above are correct. The 71-5 Buchon is correct for sure because it is quite well known plane from many B&W and also a colour picture. The light grey one displayed in the museum seems to be incorrect rather. Other images of the kite I have seen in the net show the light blue grey tone though. But still incorrect methinks.

Here two shots of the 94-27 no.C.4-J.9, I found via the net ...
94-27_a.jpg

94-27_b.jpg

the source: Prints of Hispano HA-1109 K1L Buchon

Here is another early HA-1109K1L just the 94-9 no. C.4-J.22 ...
HA 119K1L.jpg

the source: Hispano

and the 94-28 ... that was the HA-1112K1L actually
tcinla_200925_5f6d9187df303.jpg

tcinla_200925_5f6d9188b7c39.jpg

the source: Buchon Scale Models/Hasegawa 1/32 Hispano Aviation HA-1112-K1L “Tripala” - iModeler
 

SirFrancis

Airman 1st Class
119
39
Feb 10, 2022
The colour applied overall depended on the time of the service. The 94-27 wore the military number the C.4-J.9. This indicates she was one of the first HA 1109K1L. The batch was delivered to the Spanish AF in May 1951 as memo serves. The planes were painted with a coat called the Mouse Grey or IIRC, the Barrack Grey at that time. The colour was used untill the HA 1112M1L Buchon were delivered in 1954. Initially the Blue coat was used for the HA 1109M1L prototype only. It was a very fragile paint peeling off with the large strips and flakes. The Cobalt Blue no.9 ( actually a car lacquer therefore it is also called the Peugeot Blue or something like that ) was used for the HA 1112M1L Buchon. As memo serves it was just in the mid of 50'. The Blue paint was close to the RLM24. The colour was of a better quality but still liking peeling off and getting faded under the Spanish Sun. Therefore the aircraft "uniform" required refreshing often. It was done by the maintenance crews trying not to overpaint national insignias and tactical numbers. In 1960 the Silver on tops, sides and the Blue for undersides were used. Because the silver paint was unstable as well and lasted 2 years only causing problems with the light reflections during landing, the black matt anti-glare strip appeared in front of the cockpits. That's all I found in my notes saved a couple years ago. I don't have info written down if the earlier planes were repainted with the blue colour later or not. But judging by the colour shot of the 94-28 these were, although decommissioned in 1955/1956.
Well ... according to my info , the model of the 94-9, 94-27 and the profile of the 94-28 (C.4-J.10) above are correct. The 71-5 Buchon is correct for sure because it is quite well known plane from many B&W and also a colour picture. The light grey one displayed in the museum seems to be incorrect rather. Other images of the kite I have seen in the net show the light blue grey tone though. But still incorrect methinks.

Here two shots of the 94-27 no.C.4-J.9, I found via the net ...
View attachment 697847
View attachment 697848
the source: Prints of Hispano HA-1109 K1L Buchon

Here is another early HA-1109K1L just the 94-9 no. C.4-J.22 ...
View attachment 697849
the source: Hispano

and the 94-28 ... that was the HA-1112K1L actually
View attachment 697854
View attachment 697853
the source: Buchon Scale Models/Hasegawa 1/32 Hispano Aviation HA-1112-K1L “Tripala” - iModeler
Thanks Wojtec,
I noticed my model kit of 94 - 9 does not have the canon fairings. Actually the pic you added of 94-9 appears not to have any guns at all?

I like the greyish-blue tone portrayed in colour pic of 94-28

ha-119k1l-jpg.jpg
 

Wurger

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Yes .. at first the HA 1109K1L was unarmed. The series of trials was run to investigate the possible options of the armement for the planes. Initially the intended weapon were two Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm guns mounted in the underwing gondolas (pods). But the changing of the plane role from the fighter to the ground attack aircraft forced to adopt a couple of the other weapon types. The final armed product was marked as HA 1112K1L. Actually the entire serie of the HA 1109K1L was for trials only and didn't service in any operational unit.

HA 1109K1L ... unarmed or with the underwing gun pods.
HA 1109K2L ... 2x12.7mm BS gun above the engine + 8x80mm Oerlikon RM.
HA 1109K3L ... 8x 80mm Oerlikon rocket underwing launchers, no guns.

ha.jpg

the source: the net.

The last aircraft of the J1L series was modified and armed like the test HA 1109K2L but got the the Hispano-Suiza 20mm guns insted of the Breda-SAFAT ones. The plane became the first HA 1112K1L The final weapon was set on the 8x80mm Oerlikon rocket missiles and the 2x Hispano-Suiza 20mm guns for each wing.

After replacing of the HS 12Z 17 engine with the Merlin powerplant the name was changed to ...

HA 1112K1L -> HA 1112M1L
HA 1109K2L -> HA 1112M2L
HA 1109K3L -> HA 1112M3L

A note .. the Hispano-Suiza guns for the HA 1112M1L were either the HS-404 or HS-408 cannons.

HA 1109K1L with the gun pods
Hispano Aviacion Ha-1109K1L.jpg


HA-1112 K1L Tripala with the wing guns
Hispano Aviación HA-1112 K1L Tripala_a.jpg


HA-1112 K1L Tripala with guns and the rocket launchers
Hispano Aviación HA-1112 K1L Tripala_b.jpg


Hispano Aviación HA-1112 K1L Tripala.jpg

the pic source: the net.
 

SirFrancis

Airman 1st Class
119
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Feb 10, 2022
Yes .. at first the HA 1109K1L was unarmed. The series of trials was run to investigate the possible options of the armement for the planes. Initially the intended weapon were two Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm guns mounted in the underwing gondolas (pods). But the changing of the plane role from the fighter to the ground attack aircraft forced to adopt a couple of the other weapon types. The final armed product was marked as HA 1112K1L. Actually the entire serie of the HA 1109K1L was for trials only and didn't service in any operational unit.

HA 1109K1L ... unarmed or with the underwing gun pods.
HA 1109K2L ... 2x12.7mm BS gun above the engine + 8x80mm Oerlikon RM.
HA 1109K3L ... 8x 80mm Oerlikon rocket underwing launchers, no guns.

View attachment 698082
the source: the net.

The last aircraft of the J1L series was modified and armed like the test HA 1109K2L but got the the Hispano-Suiza 20mm guns insted of the Breda-SAFAT ones. The plane became the first HA 1112K1L The final weapon was set on the 8x80mm Oerlikon rocket missiles and the 2x Hispano-Suiza 20mm guns for each wing.

After replacing of the HS 12Z 17 engine with the Merlin powerplant the name was changed to ...

HA 1112K1L -> HA 1112M1L
HA 1109K2L -> HA 1112M2L
HA 1109K3L -> HA 1112M3L

A note .. the Hispano-Suiza guns for the HA 1112M1L were either the HS-404 or HS-408 cannons.

HA 1109K1L with the gun pods
View attachment 698072

HA-1112 K1L Tripala with the wing guns
View attachment 698081

HA-1112 K1L Tripala with guns and the rocket launchers
View attachment 698074

View attachment 698079
the pic source: the net.
Ah thanks Wojtek, so my kit of 94-9 has wing guns (1 each wing) like the blue model of 94 - 9 on my first post. So gun barrels only protruding - no fairings and shorter. I can't see any pics of yours or from a search online of Tripalas with the short barrel wing guns. It appears they should be unarmed or with the long shrouded canons. Is the kit incorrect then? Or perhaps it was the attempt to arm a few early ones?

I found these profile pic with the short barrels. And light grey scheme.
s-l500.jpg

2a49ecd54f6fe88343c859c4bca8d8f3.jpg


These profile pics are interesting... it says 94-6 was part of an experiment squadron...
Hispano%2BHa.1109%2B-%2BSPA.png


The same source 'War machines Drawn' has this about the guns:
A different arrangement of armament was tested. One version was armed with two outdated Italian Breda-SAFAT 12,7mm placed in the wings, another one was tested with two 20mm cannons placed in underwing gondolas and, another one was fitted with 20mm cannons placed in the wings. This last configuration showed to be the best one as they could be fitted with underwing rockets too.

I think my kit might be the version with 2 12.7mm Breda?
 
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Wurger

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Humm.... a couple of net sources mentioned that one HA 1109K1L was armed with the Breda-SAFAT guns in wings and tested. Generally they used four planes for the armament trials. So it might have been the 94-6. However I haven't found any confirmation of that. I'm afraid it is a result or just a remnant of "starring" in the two movies about the BoB. The Buchons had just such barrels without the fairings. Have a look at the links ..


It is quite interesting but the HA 1112-K1L used for the "Der Stern von Afrika" movie (1957) seem to be unarmed ..

Me109_Der Stern von Africa (1957)_a.jpg

Me109_Der Stern von Africa (1957)_b.jpg

the source: the net.
 

SirFrancis

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Feb 10, 2022
Humm.... a couple of net sources mentioned that one HA 1109K1L was armed with the Breda-SAFAT guns in wing and tested. Generally they used four planes for the armament trials. So it might have been the 94-6. However I haven't found any confirmation of that. I'm afraid it is a result or just a remnant of "starring" in the two movies about the BoB. The Buchons had just such barrels without the fairings. Have a look at the links ..


It is quite interesting but the HA 1112-K1L used for the "Der Stern von Afrika" movie (1957) seem to be unarmed ..

View attachment 698131
View attachment 698132
the source: the net.
Hmmm the plot thickens. You are right, appears Tripalas used in Der Stern von Africa were unarmed. I have yet to find a photo of any K1Ls with short barrels. Perhaps as mentioned in that article only a few trials aircraft had the 12.7mm Breda's before they decided on standardising with the 20mm wing guns in fairing shrouds.
 

Wurger

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That's possible. Also I couldn't find any pic of the 94-6 kite to get the evidence of the Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm guns in the wings. Well, if no proof ... you know what.:)
 

SirFrancis

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Feb 10, 2022
That's possible. Also I couldn't find any pic of the 94-6 kite to get the evidence of the Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm guns in the wings. Well, if no proof ... you know what.:)
Well unless it's a PR kite I find a fighter with no guns... a bit too naked... I'll have to contemplate this dilemma a bit longer.... I suppose unless I find a pic of 94 - 9 without guns then ... I can't really disprove it either... lol. It probably wouldn't be an issue for many people, but I have an anal need to be as historically accurate as possible... grrrr
 

SirFrancis

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Feb 10, 2022
Speaking of the 94-9 you mean the 95-6 doesn't you?
Well I can do either... I can turn the 9 upside down and it becomes a 6... haha. and that also gives the option of a light grey colour. But regardless which one I do I want to keep the short Breda wing guns.
 

SirFrancis

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Feb 10, 2022
Well I can do either... I can turn the 9 upside down and it becomes a 6... haha. and that also gives the option of a light grey colour. But regardless which one I do I want to keep the short Breda wing guns.
Actually, I'm getting myself in a muddle. What happens when you are working on 3 different aircraft at the same time! lol.

So Wojtek, you mentioned earlier that this is a pic of 94 - 9? If so it is clear there are no guns. I'm assuming that at some point then it would have been armed with the faired 20mm Hispano guns like they all seem to have later. It seems the Breda gunned kites were limited to a few test kites. So it appears from profile pics that 94-6 had the Breda guns. I wonder how many other kites were also tested with the Breda guns. Could 94-9 have been also one of those? hmmm

ha-119k1l-jpg-jpg.jpg
 

Wurger

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Actually, I'm getting myself in a muddle. What happens when you are working on 3 different aircraft at the same time! lol.

So Wojtek, you mentioned earlier that this is a pic of 94 - 9? If so it is clear there are no guns. I'm assuming that at some point then it would have been armed with the faired 20mm Hispano guns like they all seem to have later. It seems the Breda gunned kites were limited to a few test kites. So it appears from profile pics that 94-6 had the Breda guns. I wonder how many other kites were also tested with the Breda guns. Could 94-9 have been also one of those? hmmm

View attachment 698855


Looking at all the data has been gathered so far, there was one HA 1109 tested with the Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm guns only. Which one it was there is no info to be accessed. So it could have been either the 94-6 or 94-9. The picture you quoted above is of the 94-9. No guns though but all depends on the time period. According to other sources the HA 1109K1L were upgraded to the HA 1112K1L variant later . That's the reason for finding images of the same plane with Hispano guns or without. So .. taking all that into consideration you may make either the 94-9 with the guns or without these. Because there is the pic with the plane without the guns I would say the 94-6 could be a better candidate for the kite armed with the Breda-SAFAT guns. As I had said it : no evidence ... no problem.
 

SirFrancis

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Feb 10, 2022
Looking at all the data has been gathered so far, there was one HA 1109 tested with the Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm guns only. Which one it was there is no info to be accessed. So it could have been either the 94-6 or 94-9. The picture you quoted above is of the 94-9. No guns though but all depends on the time period. According to other sources the HA 1109K1L were upgraded to the HA 1112K1L variant later . That's the reason for finding images of the same plane with Hispano guns or without. So .. taking all that into consideration you may make either the 94-9 with the guns or without these. Because there is the pic with the plane without the guns I would say the 94-6 could be a better candidate for the kite armed with the Breda-SAFAT guns. As I had said it : no evidence ... no problem.
Fair enough, thanks Wojtek... my conscience is clear...Hahaha
 

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