heinkel he 100 and focke wulf fw 187
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loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
WELL, the war would have lasted shorter cause all the factories were already tooled up earlier for making bf110s and bf109s,there would be less fighters in the air to fight the spitfires cause the he100s would be grounded due to maintenance problems, and there will still be 109s flying up there, it cant really be helped
I dono about the Fw187
I dono about the Fw187
Twitch
Staff Sergeant
The was absolutely nothing wrong with the 109! All it needed was a a drop tank. The Me 110 flew 4 years before the Fw 187, in 1936 so the 187 could have never been in the BoB.
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- #4
Im with Twitch on this about the 109 being fine. At the time of the BoB, the 109 was the best fighter in the air.
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Glider
Captain
Personally I would rate the HE100 over the Me109. On that basis the RAF would have had a much harder time of things.
I agree with you. The He-100 probably could have developed into a better fighter but by the BoB.
Twitch
Staff Sergeant
No offense taken Beretta! The He 100 had the porential to be a decent fighter had things unfolded differently. With ongoing research and development it could have filled the role of Luftwaffe day fighter that the Bf 109 did, I agree.
The thing about the BoB is simply that NOBODY had drop tanks yet. As for "what if" let's say the 109 was fitted with them and were able to loiter over Britain much longer. Things would have been different. 109s with extended range would have been like the P-51 escorting the heavies all the way to Berlin and beyond. The 109 without extra fuel was like the P-47 escorting bombers part way and then they got smeared as soon as the P-47s departed. That's what happened when the 109s left the He 111 and Ju 88s due to the ever present low fuel situation.
The Fw 187 1st flew in 1940 by my data. But if, let's say, it would have been chosen for service it COULD have been involved in the BoB. It performance was not demonstrably superior to the 110 except in climb rate that I can see. Fire power was equal and the 110 was actually faster. But the unknown here is maneuverability. I wonder how nimble it was. It was certainly lighter than the Bf 110 so it may have done better against Hurricanes and Spitfires where the 110 didn't.
Beretta- "what if" scenarios are cool for the most part. The reality of a historical forum like this is that without alternative possibilities to discuss there would be nothing to talk about but repeating the actual historical events as they happened. Hell we can read books for that!
The thing about the BoB is simply that NOBODY had drop tanks yet. As for "what if" let's say the 109 was fitted with them and were able to loiter over Britain much longer. Things would have been different. 109s with extended range would have been like the P-51 escorting the heavies all the way to Berlin and beyond. The 109 without extra fuel was like the P-47 escorting bombers part way and then they got smeared as soon as the P-47s departed. That's what happened when the 109s left the He 111 and Ju 88s due to the ever present low fuel situation.
The Fw 187 1st flew in 1940 by my data. But if, let's say, it would have been chosen for service it COULD have been involved in the BoB. It performance was not demonstrably superior to the 110 except in climb rate that I can see. Fire power was equal and the 110 was actually faster. But the unknown here is maneuverability. I wonder how nimble it was. It was certainly lighter than the Bf 110 so it may have done better against Hurricanes and Spitfires where the 110 didn't.
Beretta- "what if" scenarios are cool for the most part. The reality of a historical forum like this is that without alternative possibilities to discuss there would be nothing to talk about but repeating the actual historical events as they happened. Hell we can read books for that!
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- #10
Bullockracing
Airman 1st Class
Well, the 187 and 100 were both beautiful aircraft to look at, that's for sure. In hindsight it's easy to see what would have developed into a better plane. The He 100 was not in the competition with the 109 for the same contract. If it had, and won, the BoB would still have been about the same. As stated before, the 187 was developed significantly after the 110, but would have done a better job (IMHO) in the 110's role, had it been developed to fill it.
Glider
Captain
Small observation re the use of drop tanks in the BOB. As we all know no one used drop tanks in the BOB but the mystery is why the Germans didn't develop them in time for the BOB or even the Battle of France.
Why I say mystery, is because the Germans did use drop tanks in the Spanish Civil War on He 51 fighters, so the concept wasn't new to them and of course they had experience of the benefits.
Why I say mystery, is because the Germans did use drop tanks in the Spanish Civil War on He 51 fighters, so the concept wasn't new to them and of course they had experience of the benefits.
The FW 187 with DB 601 engines was much faster than the bf 110 and alledgedly almost as maneuvrable as a BF 109!
The He 100 reached about 390 mph with full combat load, still alot faster than the Bf 109. Some say it was just as maneuvrable as the 109, some that its maneuvrability was inferior to the 109.
Goering seems to have been biased towards Messerschmitt though.
Goering should have put more effort into the He 280 as well.
The He 100 reached about 390 mph with full combat load, still alot faster than the Bf 109. Some say it was just as maneuvrable as the 109, some that its maneuvrability was inferior to the 109.
Goering seems to have been biased towards Messerschmitt though.
Goering should have put more effort into the He 280 as well.
Glider said:
Not sure on this, my guess though would be that they did not feel it was needed. Goering really thought that it would a quick won battle and most of the targets were in close range which later we all know was not the case, drop tanks would have been much of an advantage giving the 109s more time to cover the bombers.
Glider
Captain
I sometimes wonder how much better the Germans would have been if they hadn't had Goering in charge and had a Dowding equivalent.
Its a bit scary as they were pretty good with Goering in charge.
Its a bit scary as they were pretty good with Goering in charge.
Would not have mattered because the rest of the Nazi goons in the the higher ups were just as bad at military commanding as they were as poloticians.
Glider
Captain
I thank the stars that we didn't have to find out the hard way
I could not agree more.
Bullockracing
Airman 1st Class
I would say that Goering did as much damage to the Luftwaffe as anyone, can anyone think of anyone worse?
Nope, his ideas basically limited the capabilities of the Luftwaffe.
