Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
not necessarily in July 1939 the Poles ordered the Hercules for the PZL.53 obviously with the war starting only a couple of months afterwards the Plane never went into production but if the order had been made a couple of months earlier in the same order the Poles also planned ordered a modification to the Taurus that pushed it to 1,145hp for the PZL 50b although it wasn't due for delivery until October 1939 and when the war started only a handful (1 completed + 6 almost finished) of Pre-production PLZ 50a's (using Bristol Mercury VII) had been completed . If the war had broken out in September 1940 not 39 the Poles expected to have 300 modern fighters mainly PZL 50bs and PZL 53's if these fighters had seen service it is likely that more attention would have been paid by the British.
Expected to have and actually having them are two different things.If the war had broken out in September 1940 not 39 the Poles expected to have 300 modern fighters mainly PZL 50bs and PZL 53's
The Poles were planning on making the engines themselves they already produced the Mercury under licence and had made successful modifications. As for the Hercules and Taurus the modifications they were planning to make and had been ordered for the test engines that were to be made by Bristol and delivered in October 39 were the ones that Bristol eventually copied and made that made the engines in question significantly more reliable, so it likely that the Polish built ones wouldn't have had a lot of the same issues as they had already isolated several of the problems and came up with a solution.Expected to have and actually having them are two different things.
The British expected to have a more Beauforts in service 1940 and expected better performance and reliability than they got in 1940.
Same with the early Hercules engines.
The problems with manufacture had not reached the higher levels they would later reach when the Poles were making their plans.
Bristol did straighten things out and the Hercules became a reliable (and later very reliable) engine but 1939-40 was not that time.
Think you're over-selling the Poles here.The Poles were planning on making the engines themselves they already produced the Mercury under licence and had made successful modifications. As for the Hercules and Taurus the modifications they were planning to make and had been ordered for the test engines that were to be made by Bristol and delivered in October 39 were the ones that Bristol eventually copied and made that made the engines in question significantly more reliable, so it likely that the Polish built ones wouldn't have had a lot of the same issues as they had already isolated several of the problems and came up with a solution.
Because ? Overselling? As to what?Think you're over-selling the Poles here.
Let me repost:Because ? Overselling? As to what?
They broke enigma. In those days i think they would have tinkered the hell out of any engine they could have laid their hands on and done better.
Think you're over-selling the Poles here.
What is the track record of Polish engineers, between the wars, in improving the engine AB from the foreign company XY before that company itself improved the engine in question?Let me repost. As to crack the most secret computer in the world at that time it would have taken more then luck. Schools, education etc.
In all fronts.
You are selling short.
Install a 2-speed S/C drive on a Mercury, and it should cover all the needs for a compact and light engine with good overall power. On 100 oct, it will do a bit more than 1000 HP for take-off, and still be 300 lbs lighter than the Taurus. Also more reliable, earlier available, and cheaper and easier to make.The whole Taurus thing needed some explaining. Any decent engine designer (or buyer) should have seen the whole idea was rubbish.
Take your base line engine......Mercury VIII 24.9 liters running at 2750rpm and get 840hp at 14,000-15,000ft
Look at your goal Taurus ............25.4 liters and try to get even 1050 hp at the same altitude. If everything was the same basic theory says you need about 3440rpm. (that doesn't take into account the whopping extra 500cc displacement.)
They had a very good record of tinkering with engines in the interwar years as well as continuously producing competitive designs in many fields of aeronautics form passanger planes like the PZL 44 WIcher to which was very comparable to the Lockheed Electra the PZL 37 which was a very effective light bomber throughout the 1930s PZL were one of Europes great producers influencing many others the Gull-Wing is often called the "Polish-Wing" as they developed it. In the interwar years PZL had a stellar reputation for not modifying and improving engines they licenced from the UK and France although they showed a preference for Bristol Engines from the UK and normally went for Gnome-Rhone or Hispano-Suiza from the French. Quite a few Aircraft projects around Europe during the war like the IAR81 are direct dependents of Polish designs it is a real pity so little is written in English about what PZL were up to but Cynk, Jerzy B. Jastrząb ujawniony and Gruszczyński, Jerzy. Jastrząb nie zdążył are both greatWhat is the track record of Polish engineers, between the wars, in improving the engine AB from the foreign company XY before that company itself improved the engine in question?
They had a very good record of tinkering with engines in the interwar years as well as continuously producing competitive designs in many fields of aeronautics form passanger planes like the PZL 44 WIcher to which was very comparable to the Lockheed Electra the PZL 37 which was a very effective light bomber throughout the 1930s PZL were one of Europes great producers influencing many others the Gull-Wing is often called the "Polish-Wing" as they developed it. In the interwar years PZL had a stellar reputation for not modifying and improving engines they licenced from the UK and France although they showed a preference for Bristol Engines from the UK and normally went for Gnome-Rhone or Hispano-Suiza from the French. Quite a few Aircraft projects around Europe during the war like the IAR81 are direct dependents of Polish designs it is a real pity so little is written in English about what PZL were up to but Cynk, Jerzy B. Jastrząb ujawniony and Gruszczyński, Jerzy. Jastrząb nie zdążył are both great
What is the track record of Polish engineers, between the wars, in improving the engine AB from the foreign company XY before that company itself improved the engine in question?
According to the Poles they did tell Bristol but they were ignored of over a year
While they were using the Taurus on the PZL 50b they believed the PZL 53 that was to use the Hercules had greater development potential and thus they paid great attention to it and most of the design alterations where for the Hercules that was to be delivered to their specifications in October 39 several of the Polish engineers did escape and according to their testimonies spent a lot of 1940-41 being ignored by British colleagues who thought they knew better in many ways it parralled the way a lot of Polish pilots were treated early in the VOB just it took longer for the Engineers to be listened to it has been stated that it was the skill of the Polish Pilots and the Free Polish Navy that was instrumental in changing British attitudes and allowing for them to be listened to more after all the Mine-detector used by Monty etc in 42-43 is a direct copy of the ones the Polish introduced in 1938. As for the Polish Airforce the Poles used engines GR engines on several planes such as the PZL 24 an upgraded version of the PZL 11 that was exported to several European countries. The PZL 43, 45 and 48 all used G-R engines (along with several others) they tended to go for a variant of the GR 14 series. The PZL 56 was to use the Hispano-Suiza 12Y as was the PZL 54. The Polish were also exploring using the Gnome Rhone 14R-4 as a backup engine in case the Hercules modifications didn't work as well as actively trying to licence the Hispano-Suiza 12Z which they had been paying close attention to the development of.Thank you for the feedback.
BTW - the Bristol engines were main engines in use the Polish airforce, not the g&R, let alone the H-S.
I'm still at loss on the topic of this:
Do you know what they were talking, what was the engine in question, and when that communication took place?
Believing that just because they planned to use Taurus on their fighter automatically gives them technical expertise to debug and fix that engine is really a tall order.While they were using the Taurus on the PZL 50b
in October 39 several of the Polish engineers did escape and according to their testimonies spent a lot of 1940-41 being ignored by British colleagues who thought they knew better
As for the Polish Airforce the Poles used engines GR engines on several planes such as the PZL 24 an upgraded version of the PZL 11 that was exported to several European countries.